Episode 11: New Habits, New Year, New You
In this conversation, Brent and Rob explore the significance of habits, particularly in the context of sleep, transitions in life, and midlife changes. They discuss the importance of understanding and improving sleep habits, navigating the anxiety of transitions, and the value of slowing down to create space in life. The discussion also emphasizes the need for self-reflection during midlife, envisioning changes before they occur, and the process of building new habits through cues and rewards. Ultimately, they highlight the journey of habit formation and the importance of creating healthy habits for a fulfilling life.
Links, resources, books mentioned:
The Power of Habit - Charles Duhigg
(This post includes affiliate links. As an Amazon Associate, we may earn a small commission if you purchase through these links—at no extra cost to you.)
Topics we are covering in this episode:
Navigating transitions can create anxiety, but it's important to find a new pace.
Creating space in life allows for better enjoyment of activities and reduces stress.
Midlife is a time for reflection and reassessment of habits and priorities.
Envisioning changes before they happen can help ease transitions.
Practicing new habits in advance increases the likelihood of success.
Understanding the cues and rewards associated with habits can facilitate change.
It's essential to identify habits that serve you well and those that don't.
Sleep is a crucial habit that can significantly impact productivity and well-being.
Midlife offers an opportunity to create a new version of yourself through healthy habits.
Transcript:
Transcript Disclaimer - May contain the occasional confusing, inaccurate, or unintentionally funny transcription moment. It’s all part of the show.
Lena: It's a new year. You have a fresh start. Same old habits? In this episode of Midlife Circus, Rob and Brent talk about the tiny routines running the show. From sleep trackers and inbox zero to afternoon snack attacks and always having the feeling of needing to be on.
They explore why midlife is actually the perfect time to rewrite the script and design habits that fit who you are now, not who you were at 35. Before we begin, remember to follow Midlife Circus on Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts, and subscribe on Substack to stay up to date with everything happening under the tent. Let's dive into new habits, new year, new you.
Rob: Hey Brent, what is one of your habits that you either revisit or you change regularly?
Brent: The most important one for me that has been pretty consistent for the last like four or five years is sleep and understanding my sleep. So going back like over forty years, my mom and I would always talk about my sleep in the sense of like, when I was a little kid, she'd be like, you just don't sleep very well. So I always had that in my head that I'm not a good sleeper. And then when I started my career, this is in the mid nineties, sleeping was for when you're dead. I mean, that's literally how people would talk about it.
It was a badge of honor to sleep. If you only needed to sleep four to five hours a night, which I live by. And it caused me some health issues down the road because I just was notoriously an eighty hour a week worker, but then my sleep was typically four to five hours a night. And what I've learned as I've gotten a little bit older and I really started to pay attention to the habit of sleeping four or five years ago. And I think it's hit, I don't know, it feels like it's hit mainstream more in the last five years of people talking about it and the importance of it.
So for me, it's something that I constantly am revisiting and challenging my habits associated with sleep. And what drives a good night's sleep? What drives a poor night's sleep? How can I further enhance it? And the benefit is, I wear an aura ring.
So having that, I've had that, I have the data probably for maybe four or five years when they, I was pretty early adopter at that. So it's really interesting to see my sleep results, but it's all based on habits. And it's one that I think about on a regular basis because for me, when I sleep well, it usually is a sign for a lot of great things. Like I'm just much more productive. I just have much more clarity in my thought.
And I'm generally more enjoyable to be around just because I have the right level of energy and so forth. So I just put a lot of emphasis, but it's a habit. And I would say that I went from having really bad habits. And I would say today I have pretty good habits. And so, but that's something that I constantly am working on to ensure that I'm getting the best of it.
Rob: So does your Oura Ring give you a score at the night or the end of the cycle? So each morning you're able to see what type of sleep score you have or just gives you like, here's what your trend was over the last twenty four hours?
Brent: Yeah. It actually has your general sleep score and they use it. It's called like your readiness score. And everything's out of a 100. And so like my readiness score this morning when I woke up was like 92, which is really high And for then my sleep score was, I think 88, which is high for me as well.
And then they have an activity score And then they have like a stress monitor based on your heart rate and all these things. So it has a ton of data and talk about a habit every morning. I look at my data, which I don't know is a good thing or a bad thing, because sometimes I get more stressed out about the data versus actually just getting the quality night's sleep like, oh, this is going to lead to a bad night's sleep. My sleep score is going to be all screwed up versus just like, go get a good night's sleep. You know what it takes, you know what you feel like when you have a good night's sleep.
Stop letting the data dictate how you're going to feel that day. So it's a really weird relationship that I have with the data. But I will tell you what it has done and most important is there's certain times that I used to just try to power through things and knowing that if I have a very poor scores, I'm just a little bit more aware of maybe key decisions I'm making that day or even exercise. If I know that, hey, that was a rough night because if I just go try to crush a workout, a lot of times it just might not be a great workout. So I might alter it a little bit knowing that I'll be, it's better served to just adjust it versus just trying to suffer through everything.
It's just something I'm more aware of. So the data is actually pretty accurate, but it is a strange relationship because it is a habit addiction of the data associated with my sleeping metrics. But it's something I'd made a lot of effort or put a lot of emphasis on. So I'm happy with where I'm at, but I'm also trying to be at peace with it that I don't always have to know that information.
Rob: The stress of your sleep score gives you a lower sleep score is what you're saying at times.
Brent: Yeah. It's like, if I don't fall asleep right now, then the whole thing's going to be thrown off. Tomorrow, I'm have a terrible sleep score and then I'm going to have a terrible day because my score is really low. It's like, oh, really? Is that how this works?
So I to temper it a little bit, pull back, but understanding the trends and so forth just create better habits in general. And it's really predictable for me what a good night's sleep requires for the most part. And I would say the data has helped me understand that. And also the habit of when do I go to bed? What am I doing right before I go to bed?
If I'm on my phone, forget about it. Or my phone, my laptop or my iPad or whatever it is on the computer. It just kind of carries whatever I was working on just carries into my sleep and it's just a bad result. So I know things, but I'm still guilty of all of them.
Rob: So both Tara and I wear a Garmin watch and that does give us a sleep score. And we actually compete on a on a nightly basis as who got the better score. And most of the time, she was ahead of me until after I left my last company. My sleep scores went through the roof in terms of quality of sleep and the outcome that I get and how I feel the next day are through the roof. And, of course, this is peak midlife moments.
We're talking about sleep right now as a way to kick off a podcast. Hopefully, our audience hasn't fallen asleep listening to this discussion. Now I'm guessing if they're all in midlife, they're going to, think somewhat similar to us thinking about how important sleep is and how much we look forward to it. Today's episode is not about sleep in particular, but, Brent, you said it a couple of times. It's about habits and how to both create new habits as well as break old habits.
And the interesting thing about habits, you know, they you've heard the phrase, we're creatures of habit. The neat thing about habits is you don't have to think about them. They're a habit because they automatically happen. You consistently do it without giving it much thought. And giving thought to your habits can actually help be help you be a better version of yourself, really paying attention to what are the things that serve you and help you from a professional standpoint or a personal standpoint, and what things don't help you from a professional or a personal standpoint.
So the habit of starting your day with a fresh cup of coffee or watching TV after in the afternoon, what shows you watch and what time of day and how much time you watch television, to having a beer every night when you get home from work, or getting up and working out first thing in the morning, all those are regular habits that people have and most are either conscious or unconscious of those habits. I want to talk specifically, Brent, about your last transition a little bit. When what was the most difficult habit for you to give up or adjust when you left your last company? So when you were in transition leaving your last firm, what was the most difficult habit that you had that you had trouble giving up and took a while to change?
Brent: The number one thing that's been a challenge for me in navigating my transition from my last company is that feeling of always having to be on. And I would say this is something that I actually put a lot of value behind. So it was a habit of mine that I had built up through my entire career. So there's that reliability. He's always accessible.
He's going to work 24-7 if he needs to, to get something done. So what that did for me is I went from having that as a habit, a routine that I believe in the zero inbox, as an example, in my email, where I cleared out at the end of every day would be a goal. Didn't always succeed in it because the bigger it was, the inbox, the more anxiety it would create. Like I got a lot to do. So that habit of constantly being on was something that I built up.
But then when I left my last company, I didn't have to do that. And I had to reconcile with what that felt like because it was created actually quite a lot of anxiety right out of the gates for me because I woke up and I didn't have a full calendar and I didn't have a mass amount of emails and I didn't have a bunch of meetings or things that I needed to schedule. And it was anxiety because I was like, well, then what do I do? Then it felt like lacking productivity. And that creates a whole another monster and a whole another beast to kind of tackle.
But it was the habit of always being on to not always having to be on and reconciling with that. And I would say it took me quite a while to figure that one out. But today I feel really good that I don't wake up with that anxiety of just like, I've got to be on, I got to do this, I got to do that. It's a different pace. I wouldn't say it's a different level of productivity because I've reframed what productivity means for me in this stage of life, but it's more to do with not always feeling like I got to respond to that email right away.
I got to call that person back right away. I got to schedule these next 10 meetings. You know, that is just a different pace in life, but it's a different purpose as well. So it's been rewarding to be on the other side of it once I navigated it, but it was definitely a habit that I had that it just wasn't my last organization. It's been going on for thirty years.
So it was a bit hard to unwind, but now I feel really good that I don't have that anxiety associated with always being on. It's nice not to have that.
Rob: Not to be returning emails at eleven or 12:00 at night, screwing up your sleep score and doing that doing it that way. Waking up first thing in the morning, checking the inbox, looking at the calendar, seeing what's on the schedule for the day and just making sure you're prepared for it, all the way through the minute your head hit the hit the pillow.
Brent: Absolutely. It's just a it's a different feeling. And I would say, while I still have a lot of things that I'm accomplishing and I'm excited about, it's just everything it doesn't have to be at this moment in time. And I can space things out a little bit differently. And it's been a process for me, but it feels good to acknowledge that process that I used to have and acknowledge it in the sense like, hey, this is what you were known for.
You were good at it. But is that what you want to carry on into the future? And I clearly signaled to myself after I evaluated, no. Because it's pretty intense to manage that lifestyle or that way of operating every day, day in, day out. Like I just don't necessarily want to do that or need to do that at this point in time in my life.
Rob: Similar to yours, when I left and for me it wasn't going just to a new company, so it wasn't a transition to a new firm. It was stepping away from corporate America, taking a break and trying to figure out what would be next for me in my life. For me, it was rushing through things that I didn't need to be rushing through. Whether it be, oh, I got to get up early so I can get my workout in. Well, I didn't have anything else scheduled for the day, yet I still did my workout first thing in the morning and actually most of the time it was in the dark.
I know you and I have talked about this, a habit that we both have is if I don't do my workout before 11:00, it's not going to happen. And that's self imposed. I could actually go and ride my bike at 02:00 in the afternoon or go lift weights at two in the afternoon. But the habit was get it done early before you get on your first video conference meeting or before your first call of the day. I was trying to get that thing knocked out.
And for me, it really came to a head as I was doing some stuff around my garage, getting ready for a rafting trip that we had planned, and I found myself early just rushing to try and get it done so I could go on to the next thing on my list. Well, my list wasn't very in-depth. So you talked about always being on. I had lists of things that I need to do before I could go to work. Or when I got off of work, here's the things that you have to get done.
Get them done just as fast as you can to I have an entire day to do these activities. I don't have to rush through them, and there's actually a beauty in the slowness of that activity just to be slow and enjoy it. So it was kind of as I was rushing through it. I'm like, wait a second. All you have to do today is is get the trailer ready for a rafting trip.
I got all day to do that. And so I immediately slowed down. I had to go back and forth from the garage to get tools to actually work on the trailer, so I wasn't frustrated about the fact I didn't bring all of them with me. I was slowly going back. I turned the music on out in the garage, and I was just taking my time to get things done.
Now I don't I don't want to go all the way to the other extreme. And you and I have talked about this before, at least not on not on, on the podcast, but I know in person we've talked about some people that just do one thing for the entire day and their entire day is wrapped around that one thing. Like, I got doctor's appointments, so means I can't do anything else including have lunch or breakfast with a friend because I got a doctor's appointment that day. I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that, oh, one thing is going to take my day, but I don't need to be rushed in doing things as much as I was before.
Brent: I think what you're describing and maybe you could play back to me is when you're busy in your career or busy in anything is the reason for me why I actually would try to get things done quick is because if I don't, it stacks up, meaning there's 50 other things that are on the list to do. So I only have a finite amount of time. And I was just used to that. Is that how you felt as you were getting ready for this rafting trip as an example, where it was always like, if I don't do it, then I've got all these other things I need to do. And when's that going to get done?
Rob: If I don't do it now, I'm going to be up till midnight trying to get it done. So I need to do it now, but I had all day to do it. I didn't have conference calls throughout the day that I had to go into. So you're spot on.
Brent: Yeah. I find to me where I'm getting the benefit today that I used to not get the benefit. What I'm able to do is create space to get ready, which actually helps me enjoy the entire process better. Meaning it's that warm up for the trip. A buddy and I do these really far off fly fishing trips and we go to these really remote locations.
And one of the things that we used to always say in those trips, it's going to take us a day and a half to two days to unwind from work. Then it's going to take us at the end of our trip, we're starting to wind back up. So the last day is kind of a weird day because we're not enjoying the moment at all. We're like, geez, what's our inbox going to look like when we get back? So now if I can protect the trip more and create a little bit better of the wind up, like winding into a trip and the same at the end where it's not like, don't stack my day upon return so full that I'm like creating anxiety artificially.
So it's a little bit different now. I think a lot of it has to do with time. I mean, I have the ability to space things out, but I can tell you if I go back in time, even when I was full go in my work is my habit was I'm just going to get more done. I probably could have taken a few things out of my schedule to create that space to get ready for the trip. So I don't feel like it's a last minute deal, but it's just a routine.
I mean, it was just always like, I'm going to work to the very end. I'll send a 100 emails that feels like before I go. And then of course there's going to be a thousand when I get back because people are going to respond and then I'll be like out of office. And then it's like, so I'm looking back, I'm kind of laughing at my own poor behavior.
Rob: It wasn't, you could have taken the time beforehand too, you had the habit and of always being you forced yourself to get the work done first, which you could have actually probably taken half a day to prep for those fishing trips.
Brent: A 100%. And it was just packing it full. And that was my way of trying to leave everything in good order, at least through my lens and my work before I left. Because then I felt like, okay, I've accomplished so much today. I'm good.
I'm really deserved to go. I'm prepared to go. But in the end, most likely what I was doing is probably creating anxiety for my team because I would send a blast of things. Hey, while I'm out.
Rob: Yeah, here's a laundry list of things I'm hoping you're thinking about too.
Brent: Yeah, so then it's not a great thing. So I haven't given much thought to that, but that's probably pretty bad acting on my part.
Rob: Well, it's funny, we have the benefit of looking backwards and realizing that that one, wasn't good for your team, but two, probably wasn't even needed at that time from you either. Right? And I know I've looked back at my life and the decisions I made around time spent and how I approach different things and the habits that I had that weren't actually helping me at all. And I'm like, those were dumb. Why was I doing things that way?
So if you're in corporate America still and you're thinking about going on vacation and you're getting ready to go on vacation, but you're working up to the last minute, you probably don't need to. Actually, your team is likely going to be okay without you. Start thinking about being on vacation, the first day of vacation, and maybe warming up to the vacation before getting in the vacation so you don't miss a first couple days just trying to unwind. Midlife is really kind of a time for all of us to start assessing our approach to what are the habits that are helping us and what isn't helping us right now. We're recording this episode just before the end of the year.
I think we're going to actually release this one on New Year's Eve, I think, is our release date for this episode. So it does kind of dovetail in with, with the New Year's and people thinking about New Year's resolutions. Not talking about resolutions, Brent, but really thinking about midlife. Why is midlife an important time in your mind to start assessing your current habits, what's working, what's not, and what new habits do you want to create? Why midlife?
Brent: I find for me personally, it feels like it's a season of change. And it's a season of change because I'll just give you my own situation. Is one of my kids is in college. Another one's a senior in high school. I made a transition from my last company a couple of years ago.
I really look at my health through a different lens than I maybe did a handful of years ago, just because I have a little bit more bandwidth to put more of an emphasis on healthy living. And I'm also have this constant desire to explore and get out there and see the world. And so when I say a season of change, it's just from my understanding and a lot of the reading I've done around midlife is it is a time where you start to look at your purpose. You start to look at who do you want to surround yourself with? You start to look at what kind of work do I actually want to do?
Do I want to work? Do I need to work? A lot of times, yeah, we do need to work. And I'm not saying just go change everything but it is a different point in time in life where you now have time to think about these things because you've created some space. And for me creating spaces, the kids is a big deal.
I mean, it's really big for us. My wife and I were just talking about it yesterday. And I've mentioned this in previous episodes. It's just a change that it was really hard to understand how I would respond to. My first kid going to school, but now my second kid going to school, going to college, going away.
And I don't think I'm actually prepared for the second one because I only have two kids. But overall, when I think about midlife seasons of change, it is a great time to look at your habits. What are the routines you have? Because I no longer will have a routine down the road that says kids coming home, like when the kids coming home from after school and high school or middle school or whatever it is? What sports are this weekend?
I mean, that whole thing is changing. It just as a matter of fact, I mean, my kids have been runners for quite a long time. I mean, my younger one is wrapping up his high school cross country career. I've been watching high school races for seven straight years and it's been a big deal. And so that's a habit, that's a routine.
So there's also really cool stuff when I like seasons of change, because it is an opportunity to reflect. It is an opportunity to say what's important to me now. And some things are changing just based on the nature of time. So I'm just able to look at it and I look at some of the cool stuff that you and I are doing. We're in a habit of pushing ourselves physically with some of these endurance events.
I love those. There's also what cool trips and you name it. But it is a season of change, which is incredibly challenging to navigate, but I'm taking it with the positive side, the optimistic side. Like we all go through these changes. And so it's important to carve out a little bit of time to reflect and understand what's important to you at this stage in your lives.
Rob: I'm hearing you say it. Just the openness that this the changes that we go through in midlife leaves for us. And not to negate the changes and the transition that happened in our twenties and thirties where you, you know, it's now a marriage or you have your first child, a pretty dramatic change, but it becomes more busy during those changes. Or you have a new job or you get a promotion where things get busier. Those are all important changes, but these feel a little bit different, I would I would say.
Is it it's not a change to being busier. It's a change that things are actually potentially even less busy. So kids are now you just talked about it. Your both your boys will be out of the house here this time next year. That's an openness.
You and I both transitioned away from corporate America and working world into a semi retirement type of lifestyle where we're working but doing a lot more fun stuff that created more openness for us as well. And so gives us it's a different feeling, I would say. This busyness going away in the transition from a very full and always being on life and things like that and stepping away, most midlife transitions create space. And that's what I experienced, when I left. Some habits that I had that we were, you know, pretty conditioned to is on the weekends, Tara and I would make dinner together, and we do this pretty big elaborate dinner, lots of ingredients.
We'd have a cocktail or a bottle of wine and share that over making dinner and through the evening, and it was kind of a celebratory event through the week that we both look forward to. We only did those things on the weekends because I was too busy like you. I was working sixty, seventy hour weeks. I was working till seven or 08:00 at night. Tara ate way too early for me to try and have a have a dinner with her at three or four.
And so the openness that was created by leaving work caused us, hey. Let's cook more days of the week together. And so we would make dinner together, but those dinners included wine or a cocktail. And after a while, Brent, I found myself having wine or cocktails every single night, which doesn't help me. It doesn't help my sleep score.
That's the number one thing that screws up my sleep score, but it's not the lifestyle I wanted to have. I was absolutely happy having cocktails or a drink one or two nights a week, but every night of the week was a new habit that was starting to develop for itself because there was an openness in our life that we started to fill with things that worked well when I was working. But when I stopped working, it's fun to cook together, but the other things associated with it that we did along with making dinner together, that were not as healthy also got brought into place. And it also became a pretty big habit. So we're now back at the place where we went back to what served us well and what helped us was we cooked together a couple nights a week, but then we have dinner on our own.
We'll actually have two separate meals. Tara will have dinner, like, 03:00 in the afternoon. I can't believe she eats that early. If I did, I'd
Brent: be I mean, it's great for her sleep scores are probably off the charts.
Rob: Always in the night.
Brent: Digested, fully, like, I'm going to sleep well tonight.
Rob: She's been doing intermittent fasting way longer than intermittent fasting was a thing. Having dinner at once or, you know, one, 02:00 in the afternoon, not eating until 07:00 the next morning, that's a habit that she's put in place. But now we're back to that where we're eating separate meals. We're both preparing our own separate meals because it worked when we were working. Let's keep that going.
It keeps us healthier moving forward.
Brent: Yeah. I find that there's certain things you learn about yourself when you make a major transition like we're talking about. And to me, some of the habits I don't like either. And I find that while a habit was to talk about work, but then now what do we talk about? And sometimes the thing I don't like, which we're pretty good about navigating in my household, but like politics, I just don't enjoy talking about politics that much.
When you don't have other things to talk about that you're normally talking about like, Hey, I've got a trip upcoming or, and it's not a complaining session. It was just more or less the logistics. Hey, I'm traveling here in a little bit. Let's just kind of, I'll give you a sense of like my schedule over the next couple of days. It's just a different kind of conversational piece, but then a new habit comes in where it's like the latest current event, those drive me crazy.
Like it's just mind numbing. I'm like, I don't want that to be the habit of, let's just talk about the latest injury that we have. Let's talk about the politics of the day or certain things. So it's interesting trying to navigate some of those current events and things that are happening with our body. Because certainly Rob, we have aches and pains more now than we probably did ten years ago.
Rob: And we talk about them significantly more often too.
Brent: Yeah. Yeah. And that's universal. That's just not you and me. No.
It's like waking up, I'm like, that is a pain I haven't felt before. And I'm like, what did I do? Nothing. I just thought a habit then is to stretch more and do things to overcome those little nitty things that drive me crazy.
Rob: And habits that get created unconsciously for us too. Right? So the having a drink every night of the week, having a glass of wine or a bottle of wine, sharing a bottle of wine, you know, every night of the week was a habit that filled an empty space. That that was something we were completely unconscious of until a few weeks had gone by, probably after a month, month and a half had gone by before we realized, wait a second, we've been doing this every single day. This isn't what we wanted to do with our time.
This isn't what we wanted to do with our health by having drinks every single day. And we had just gone into it because we were in a place of transition, and a habit was created to fill that void. And I we had to break that habit. So thinking about habits, Brent, how do you approach building new habits now?
Brent: I know you've been pretty good at giving me some guidance in some of the books that you've read. What's the one that you really like? And I forget The power of habit.
Rob: Right. Right. Charles Duhigg.
Brent: Right. And so I remember the power of habit and it's that he, what is his, he's got like a three step process or I think most of them have some sort of a process, the books. I've read a few other ones as well, but what is his approach to it?
Rob: His approach is in creating a new habit, habits are a three step process, whether it be creating a new habit or breaking one. There the three steps are the cue. So what is it that kicks off the ritual, which is step two, is what is the habit that you do every day? And then last one is the reward. So cue, the ritual, and then the reward at the end of that ritual.
Brent: So for me, the one is that I've been trying to wrestle with for a long time, and I'm putting more and more emphasis, and I'm pretty open about this is the kind of the afternoon snacking as an example. And I'm a world class snacker, Rob. Like, I can I can eat anything in the pantry anywhere from two to four, two to five, and it's a meal before a meal?
Rob: Carrot sticks, celery, right, apple, that's what you're having? Oh, No.
Brent: No. You're talking chips, pretzels. Oh yeah, sometimes an apple, sometimes all of them. Yet last night's meal, it's this habit, this routine. And so what I'm trying to understand by using the cue ritual reward is what is the cue for that?
And what I find is even if I am not even hungry, right around 02:00, it's this cue of like, I need to eat something. And then the ritual is to wander out and work out of the house. So wander out to the kitchen and just kind of look in the fridge, look in the pantry and be like, what do I want right now? And then it's like snacking while I'm thinking about it. And usually then the reward is, oh, I'm full again.
Even if I'm already full and now I'm over full. And then I eat a normal dinner, at 05:30 or whenever we eat dinner. And it's crazy to me. So what I've been working on is actually establishing as the day starts, what will be my afternoon snack today? So I know that there's going to be a cue, but what will it be?
What's my reward? Are the ritual then is to say, okay, I'm going to go have an apple with peanut butter, something like that. And then the reward is I'm not stuffed. And I feel like, oh, and then it all ties actually, believe it or not, it all ties to sleep because then I'm not eating a big meal, another big meal. And then I'm trying to digest into the night because I just way overate.
So that's one, but I wouldn't say I'm great at that one. It's tough to navigate for me. I'm fortunate that I exercise a lot. And so it's just not impacting me from a weight perspective all that much, But I just don't feel great. And I remember back in the day, I mean my metabolism was so high that I could eat just all day long.
It just never impacted me. Not so much anymore.
Rob: Well, the example you just gave is actually very similar to the one that's in the book, the power of habit. He talks about going and getting a cookie in the afternoon. And what they what Charles Duhigg just suggested is figuring out what's the reward. So the person gets up from their desk, they go and talk to some friends, they have a cookie at that time, and then they go back to their desk. And, really, the reward might be not the cookie itself or the food.
It might be actually sitting and talking to other people might be the reward. And so testing that out and saying, what is it that I really am looking for during this period of time? What is it that I need? That's how you change that habit. So at 02:00, you go and get something to eat.
Is it is it is it maybe just getting away from your desk? It's not actually hunger that's getting to you. It's actually you want to move and get some movement, some circulation in your body, and you just happen to go to the pantry to get food. You might be actually just as well served by going for a walk around the block and enjoying that instead. So it's really figuring out not just what is the ritual, but why do you do the ritual?
What is it that's in it for you? What happens around that ritual that you might want to change or you might want to impact what the ritual is.
Brent: That's super helpful for me because I think about, you just hit it to a head is to me, it's about getting out of my office or away from my computer. That's usually the reward. Because I just go sit in the kitchen. I don't bring anything with me and I just kind of sit there and I'll snack and do whatever. And I pace around the house a little bit and sometimes I would take the dogs outside, but the true reward is just taking a break.
Rob: Yeah.
Brent: That's interesting. I never thought about it. I haven't read that book in its entirety. So I need to pick that up because you probably just hit it on the head for me is just, I just need a break. I know all the downsides of it.
I've done all the research, but I think you're onto something for me. And this is helpful because if I truly understand what the reward is, I'll probably have a better sense of tackling the cue and the ritual.
Rob: Yeah. And creating new habits, really focusing on what's the cue for the new habit you want to create. And so like working out, it's having to trip over your shoes to be able to go do that next thing. And the workout clothes are out for you first thing in the morning. Your workout's already planned.
It's what's the cue that's going to help you follow that new ritual because otherwise, you're going to fall back into the old one. And so for me, one of the things I'm really trying to do is drink more water. And so, you know, I get up from the desk, I go wander over, open the fridge, and there's a glass of water in the fridge for me. And the so the cue is I can't control the cue, but the ritual for me is to drink more water. So I'm going to go over open the fridge.
There's a glass of water. Let me just pound that before I do anything else right now. So that's helping me start that new habit or continue the habit of drinking water on a much more regular basis. Just because I want to be healthier, have healthier skin. I actually, my attitude gets adjusted pretty significantly if I'm drinking water.
If I if I don't, I actually fall down a depression hole. If I'm really dehydrated, I start feeling significantly more depressed. And so the cue for me, going back to the original story is I get up, wander, want a snack or something like that, but the habit I'm trying to do is drink more water. In working out, I I put clothes out the day before. So before I can get dressed into anything else, I'm going to have to put my workout clothes on.
Otherwise, I'm going to have to consciously make a choice not to workout. And then I'm consciously saying, that's not important. I'm typically not going to make that choice because I know the consequence of that one. By not working out, I'm not going to feel as good throughout the day. So both changing the cue or the ritual is important, but you want to start with what is the reward you're actually trying to seek.
Brent: You know, for the way you describe that with water is really important because I think I went through so many years of my life being dehydrated because I would just kind of power through the day. And it was just, and I'd get to the end the day, I'm like, I think I just drank one, maybe two glasses of water and each glass is what 12 to 14 ounces. And I'm like, that can't be enough. And one of the things that's been helpful for me, because I like you, is I put more emphasis on water is when I have water, I'm actually less hungry in the afternoon as well. And it's not powering a bunch of water at 02:00.
It's actually water consistently throughout the day and then learning when to stop it. So then it doesn't impact me. And I have to pee a 100 times at night, but it's actually a really helpful kind of helps to my overall challenge with the snacking side of things is just being hydrated. But I also agree with you. I just feel better when I'm hydrated.
And I've only learned about the hydration really, I guess me putting an emphasis on it in the last couple of years, But I've seen other people, you know, I've talked about it quite a bit. I've talked about it with my brother quite a bit. My sister is pretty good about it. And you start seeing people carrying around those big jugs of water and you're like, what are they up to? But now you understand why.
Healthier living. Absolutely. Hands down. Yeah.
Rob: Yeah. The if we haven't lost our guests by now talking about sleep and drinking water, two of the most sexy things to be talking about, you're truly in midlife if you're actually interested in the conversation about how do I how do I get sleep more sleep? How do I drink more water? Brent, as we think about midlife being a time of transition when a lot of kind of major transitions happen in life, so leaving work, kids going off to school, or now completely out of the house. Before we go through a transition though, what are some of the habits that people should start thinking or how should they start thinking about habits to implement prior to the transition?
Brent: The one that's helped me out the most is envisioning the change before the change happens. And that's a habit. So if you know that you're going to go through a significant transition, start to envision what that could look like. Now you're not going to hit it a 100%. I couldn't have imagined what it was like for my oldest to go off to college.
Like I didn't know what that feeling is, but I can start to sense it. Once they're in high school, you start to sense them not being around as much because once they have a car, their friends are really important. Their sports are really important. So they're gone a lot. But starting to envision what would that void feel like and understanding how am I going to navigate that?
Am I going to just allow it to sink me or am I going to actually embrace it? And that's something that's been helpful starting to envision certain changes in my life and pros and cons. And so the habit for me, tying it back to the major theme today, is being thoughtful about what's coming, but not trying to live in the future. That's not where I'm going with this. I'm going with this, is there things that you can do to help you through a transition today?
You've always taught me one thing really well around habits and change. It's like, is there certain things you can practice today and not actually go all in? I remember reading this thing about you need to drink a gallon of water a day. As an example, we'll go back to the water. If I started out drinking a gallon, I'd be really uncomfortable.
But what if I went from 60 ounces to 70 ounces and then to 80 ounces and just kind of keep growing it from there, Envisioning the change and starting to do some small steps is much easier to navigate than just going all in and waiting for the moment. But there's this fine line, as I mentioned, of trying to live in the future versus living in the present. That's a risky endeavor as well. If you're trying to be so focused on, I'm trying to minimize the pain, I don't know if that actually helps you. But if there's certain things that you can do to start to prepare yourself for whatever is happening potentially in the future, it might be beneficial.
And that's been helpful for me. I know I can't speak for everybody on this, but to me, that's been a helpful aspect of easing some of the future challenges by just starting to envision like, what would this look like? As an example, if you know you're going to be making a major career change, well, guess what? You might have a little bit more time. What's one of the easiest thing you and I both did it and it worked great for us.
What's one of the easiest things you can do if you have more time? Put more into your health. Exercise more, spend a little bit more time thinking about what you're eating, spend a little bit more time doing different types of reading, things like that. You know it's coming. So maybe figure out like, hey, this actually might be my greatest opportunity to create a new habit of something I've always wanted to do.
And then it all of a sudden becomes exciting and you look forward to it versus getting in the valley of despair where you're just like dreading what's coming.
Rob: Yeah. The moment of transition, people wait for that. I think it's, you know, the thing about the New Year's resolutions, like, up in the first of the year, here's this date. This is now going to be the new me, and here's the new thing that I'm going to do. Or once I have this new job, here's the new thing I'm going to do.
I'm not going to do this next job like I did the last one. I'm really going to have balance in my life and spend time, more time with my family while I'm working at this new company. Or I'm going to be more in contact with friends when I stop working. Everybody thinks this deadline is going to cause that opportunity for that new habit to fill. It doesn't always happen.
In fact, that's why most New Year's resolutions actually fail is it's a start date. People start to do it, then they have a gap. And that gap is easy to get filled, or they forget the habit, or they don't follow the habit. And they get out of that habit pretty quickly rather than practicing the habit in advance. And this probably won't help people since this is coming out at on New Year's Eve as they're thinking about the resolution.
So maybe the resolution is to start practicing the new habit in January to be able to live it in February that you're building your way up into that. So if you're going to be transitioning from one company to another and you want to spend more time with your family, don't wait until you go to the new company to try and spend more time because your old habits will creep back in. Start to spend more time with your family before you make that transition if that's what the goal was. So when you talk about practicing, it's trying the new habit, whether it be working out, drinking, spending more time with the people that you love, doing things differently. Practice those in advance of that date.
It's going to give you significantly higher odds of actually building this habit and making sure you keep doing it long term if you spend some time practicing it in advance.
Brent: Let me ask you this question. And maybe this will help all of us understand things around habits. What is one habit that you have that you're incredibly proud of?
Rob: I would say it's how I spend my mornings. And it's been one that's been a pretty solid habit for a long time. So unlike you, Brent, that you would check your email first thing in the morning, I didn't. I got up and the habit is to start making a pot of coffee. And Tara and I would sit and enjoy a pot of coffee together.
And sometimes it might be while we're reading books or she's scrolling through news and things like that on her phone and I'm reading a book or we might watch a YouTube channel from somebody we really like that's out doing an adventure. But I spend and invest every morning over a pot of coffee or a couple cups of coffee with Tara just going really slow. And that's a habit that got built, I might say, twenty years ago that we start fifteen years ago, maybe that we started doing that and not really just turning on TV and the news and having things in the background. And without kids, we have the luxury of that. We've been at friends' houses where there's kids and they have to get them ready for school, and the busyness of that morning really throws me off.
You know, get dressed, pack the lunch, and I'm trying to sit there and drink coffee, but my anxiety starts going up. And so I find myself now doing when we're at those houses with friends is I get up earlier and I enjoy a couple cups of coffee before any of the kids are up and before that that, excitement goes off. But the habit of a slow start to my morning has really, I think, served me really well.
Brent: So then the reward is what?
Rob: I feel more relaxed throughout the day if I start my day like that. It just it's it grounds me in a way that, that if I started by jumping into the news or jumping into my email, my heart rate would go up. I get more excited. I'd be more intense. And the mornings that I know that and I do break from this at times when stuff was really busy at work.
I would get up early and start working right away too. But I know that if I spend my morning a little more grounded, I love the ritual of making really good coffee. To do that, that's a process to get really good coffee. And so the ritual there and the habit there is something I look forward to almost every morning. And when I do, I feel more grounded.
And when I don't, it affects me throughout the entire day.
Brent: So that's something that you can always build upon. And so you created something over twenty years and it's a habit that has worked well for you and served you well, then you can start to look at that and saying, not related at all, but what are other habits that maybe I'm trying to start out and realizing, Hey, that was a journey to get there. That didn't happen overnight. You just didn't all of sudden click and that's back to your new year's resolution comment. It's like, that's why a lot of times they fail is because it's like this wholesale change.
Humans aren't really designed that way. No. Unless it's forced upon you. Humans are a creature of habit. Hence what we're talking about today.
And so if you want to change a habit or introduce a new habit is it takes a bit of time, but also your rewards are great. And it leads to a lot of other positive things in your life throughout that day and just your broader life in general. So it's really cool. Thanks for sharing that. Because I always think about we all have those things that serve us well And how can you leverage those things in your learnings from something that has served you well to create another habit or get rid of a habit?
And that's what's kind of fun through this journey of midlife and the timeframe or time of life that we're in is, I'm certain that everybody listening to this right now can identify a handful of things that they'd love to just get rid of and a handful of things that they love to keep and start. So it's that start stop continue kind of exercise.
Rob: Absolutely. And midlife is really the opportunity to have that assessment. Your values may have changed a little bit. You have more openness in your life right now to be able to think through what does the next twenty years look like and what are the healthy habits that you want to start today that'll help you and serve you well as you age and as you, as you make transitions in your life. And not necessarily just focused on the new year, but focused on a new you and building habits around how do you actually get the best from yourself, how do you help be the better person for those that you love and those that you care about, and creating healthy habits that will help you be the best person that you could possibly be.
That's how I typically think about habits is how does it help me be better for all the people around me, but more importantly, better for myself. And so with that, Brent, thanks for your time today. And as you go out and build habits with, with yourself, with your family, you're the director of your next great act. And the next great act all starts based upon the habits that you begin to create today.
Lena: That's it for this episode of Midlife Circus. Visit midlifecircus.fm for show notes, transcripts, and all the latest happenings. And while you're there, sign up for our newsletter on Substack. Follow Midlife Circus on Apple podcasts, YouTube, and wherever you get your podcasts so you never miss your next great act. Quick reminder, the opinions and stories shared here are personal reflections, not professional advice.
This show is for entertainment and inspiration only. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you under the big top next time. Midlife Circus is a Burning Matches Media production.