Episode 40: 10 Things We Got Completely Wrong About Midlife

When Rob and Brent were 25, they were sure they'd have it all sorted by 50: the body, the diet, the friends, the whole point of it. This episode is a Letterman-style countdown of ten things they got completely wrong, from the belief that mac and cheese was a permanent food group to the assumption that leaving work would be the easy part. It's mostly a laugh at their own expense, but somewhere around the bottom of the list it turns into something real about drifting friendships, losing an identity built on work, and still not knowing what you actually want. If you're in midlife and quietly winging it, you're in good company.

Transcript:

Transcript Disclaimer - May contain the occasional confusing, inaccurate, or unintentionally funny transcription moment. It’s all part of the show.

Brent: 00:02

Rob, go back in time. You're twenty-five. If somebody asks you to describe a person in their fifties, what would you say? And be honest about it. What did you actually picture?

Rob: 00:36

Oh boy, I really hope I do not resemble the picture of this. I picture the old couple. I would have, I guess, if I was 25 years old. So when I was 25, I would picture, you know, the balding old couple, you know, the old man and the gray-haired old woman walking hand in hand on the beach at sunset. You know, I picture like slow music, the AARP commercials of the time, right? It's not quite nursing home, but knocking on the door of needing a nursing home. That's probably the image I would have had when I was 25 years old of a 50-year-old. So I really hope I don't resemble that picture.

Brent: 01:18

Or is it like the bathtub of the Viagra commercials? You know, you're just sitting there.

Rob: 01:22

That one too, yes.

Brent: 01:23

Yeah, you're like two people in separate bathtubs. I'm like, where are those bathtubs? That doesn't really, you don't see that a whole lot in life where they're out in the nature and they're just sitting holding hands in their bathtub. Then you see a Viagra ad. Yes. Okay. To answer your question, no, you do not resemble that. But it is funny when we think about what our projection of what life would be like 25 years ahead when in our mid-20s, and now we're in our 50s, and we're like, boy, did we get it wrong. So that is the whole idea of today's episode. It's a fun episode. And what we're doing is we're going to talk about 10 things that we completely got wrong from when we were in our mid-20s till now about projecting forward. So we're going to do it David Letterman style, so a little bit nostalgic there as well. And we're going to do a top 10 list, counting down from 10 down to one, and we're going to talk about 10 things we got completely wrong, and we're going to share it with you.

Brent: 02:25

Before we do that, remember if you're liking the show, go ahead and follow us on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. And to kick things off, Rob, why don't you start out with number 10?

Rob: 02:38

All right, number 10. Diet does not matter. I can just burn it off. So I can eat anything I want, anytime I want it, as much as I want. And eh, it's fine. There's no downside to having you know a voracious diet and or appetite and wanting to eat large plates of food. I've earned it, so I can.

Brent: 03:02

Do you remember in your 20s, let's say you're just really hungry and you go to Subway? I had experiences where I would eat two foot-long subs. Now that is disgusting to think about. Like I'm barely able to just power down a six-incher now. But when you think of two footlongs, like where does that go in the body? But it's like, hey, I exercise really hard, so then therefore I can just eat whatever I want. Isn't that disappointing, though, when you get later in life where food doesn't quite work that way?

Rob: 03:37

It's not just that you put on weight, is I feel bad when I eat bad food now. You know, if I have that donut or I have that extra sweet, or you know, pick up a candy bar at the grocery store line. I feel it like an hour later. I don't remember feeling the food I ate after I had it when I was in my 20s. I could just eat and everything was fine, just process correctly. Now, if I have something, either it spins me up mentally where I feel like I'm goofy because there's so much sugar in it, or I just feel like this weight is sitting in my stomach that I got to, you know, sit around and can't do anything for the next three or four hours. But I could go eat a huge meal and then go for a run or go for a big hike. Now I got to actually process food before I go and do anything.

Brent: 04:16

It's just so predictable as well. That's the bummer behind it. You're like, oh, we're going to go to that type of restaurant. You're like, it's going to be great, but I'm going to feel like terrible for a couple hours afterwards. I have one food group that I thought would stick with me for my entire life. When I was in my 20s, one of my food staples was Kraft mac and cheese. And I could eat two boxes, no problem, in one setting. And I thought that that would just carry with me in time. And boy, did I miss that one in a big way. Like I just, it just doesn't sit well. What I call mac and cheese now, Rob, is I call it dinner with an old friend. And every once in a while I'll go nostalgic and I'll have a box. And I actually had one recently, and I sat down, it wasn't Kraft mac and cheese, it was probably like Annie's or something because I'm saying trying to be a little bit healthier. I don't know about that. No knock on any of the brands, but I was just had it. It was delicious when I had it, and boy, did I feel terrible for about three hours. Great.

Rob: 05:19

That neon orange cheese.

Brent: 05:22

Yeah, it glows in the dark. I mean, there's a lot of you know things, signals that this may not be healthy for you, but I thought that was going to be a food group for me forever because I was so good at mac and cheese, and that was a staple, not even in it, it was high school, college, and probably till I got married, and probably Carolyn's like, you know, Brent, that's not the greatest, healthiest food. Oh, you know what? Another aha moment that I had recently, Rob, and it's a very sad one for me. So both my kids are in college. I recently went to Costco, and I was just picking up some stuff, and I realized one thing while I was in Costco is I am an instigator of bad food in the house periodically. And I would go to Costco and I would get the muffins or a box of cookies or things like that. And I'd always think, oh, the kids will eat them with me. Guess what? There's no kids in the house right now to eat that stuff with me. So I would just be the 100% guilty party. So I did not go down the path of buying any really bad stuff. I still snuck a few things in there, but boy, that was an aha moment for me. It was like, wait a minute, I can't blame it on the kids anymore for bringing crap into the house.

Rob: 06:36

What was the item you snuck in this time around that I can sneak into your pantry and have a little bit of it since I don't have any of that stuff in my house?

Brent: 06:43

I got the have you had those Aussie bites? They're like cookies.

Rob: 06:48

Oh, yeah, I've seen them. No, I've not had them.

Brent: 06:50

They're really good. And then you look at the cover and it's great marketing. You know, it's got omega-3s and it's got all these things, but of course I snuck those in because I was like, I got to get something in the house. And I'm the only one who will really eat them. Carolyn's like, you know, go for it. But I feel it. Because here's my problem. I can't just have two, I need to have five. And it's not just for dinner, you know, for dessert. It's like, oh, after lunch, before lunch, after breakfast. Why not? Why not now?

Rob: 07:21

You need more of those omega-3s.

Brent: 07:23

Yes. So that is number 10. Diet doesn't matter. Similar category is number nine, is the rock hard body of a 25-year-old is permanent. And I thought this was going to last forever. That yeah, you work out, you know, you're looking buff, and you just kind of everything just comes together. And the one thing that's more disappointing on this one is when I was in my 20s and really in my 30s, if I was feeling a little bit off, let's say, oh gosh, I felt like I gained a few pounds, I could just go work out hard for one or two weeks, all back to normal. And now, Rob, different story entirely. I don't even know if I could get it back. I actually I do know. I don't think I could get it back, Rob. Like I could, because there's those dudes on Instagram that are always saying, you know, these are the things you have to have the six-pack. I just don't think I have the discipline nor desire to go to the levels that they go through. But I don't know what's your feeling on this one, this whole rock hard body of a 25-year-old. Did you think it was going to be permanent? And then all of a sudden one day you're like, hmm, not so permanent anymore.

Rob: 08:32

I used to think, yes. I used to think that, oh, look at that. That person, wow, they've let themselves go. I'm never going to be like that. I'm never going to let myself go. And then I stand in front of the mirror or on a previous episode, stand on that scale. I'm like, where did I go? Come on, I let myself really go compared to what it was like. And going back to you mentioned working out, you could do it over a week or two and lose a bunch. I get worried that if I'm going to try to work out like that, I'm going to hurt myself and then make things even worse, right? It's like, oh, I'm going to lift too big a weight or I'm going to do something too fast and I'm going to get hurt. So I just don't do anything. I've, of course, could probably get back to something like that, but at the cost that I don't want to pay. It goes back to the diet thing. I'd have to stop eating as much food as I eat, and I'd have to actually, you know, do two-a-day workouts, which that seems really hard.

Brent: 09:19

Well, Rob, what you just did there is you justified the reason for not working out hard.

Rob: 09:24

Yes.

Brent: 09:25

Because you just said, you know, I just don't want to injure myself. That's another thing that kind of happens at our age. It's like we have these great rationalizations and justifications for why we're not going to do something because, oh, we don't want to get hurt. Well, there's probably ways that we can exercise a little bit more appropriate at our age, but we might bypass it because we're like, no, I just I don't want to be that guy that throws out his back like Brent did. Yeah, well, here we are. Welcome to our 50s.

Rob: 09:53

Number eight, early is on time. Man, I still get this one wrong all the time, Brent. And I think it has to do with sometimes in my youth, I was always late to things. So when I was in complete control, I showed up at places early. And in the business world, early is on time. On time is late. That's what I kind of grew up in that mantra. Is if you're not early, you're late. And this has come back to bite me. And I know it causes a lot of consternation in our house because if we're going to meet somebody at an event, I'm typically antsy and getting antsy around the house trying to help us leave early or leave to be there right on time. And I even did this recently at your house where you said, Hey, just come over a few minutes early and we can do something before we go and work on the trails. And a few minutes early turned into what, like 30 minutes early?

Brent: 10:46

Showed up a bit early. Yeah. Yeah. Just a little bit early. I was eating dinner. I was just like, I thought I had all the time in the world. I thought a few minutes, Rob, on this one was a few minutes, meaning three to five minutes, not 20 to 30 minutes. And you just showed up, and I'm like, well, all right, come on in, you know. And it didn't bother me actually at all. But it's funny because this one is so true. Sometimes the early thing is right now, you just in life you have to be on time or just maybe a little bit late, depending on the event. But too early, you usually throw people off.

Rob: 11:19

Yeah. So I don't want to be the guy that shows up half an hour early to the party. I'm not going to show up and set up. That's not my job. It's almost like those commercials, Brent, the what is it, progressive TV commercials that were becoming our parents. Every time I watch those, I keep thinking about the fact that, oh, I might show up a little bit earlier. I might show up, you know, on time just to do something extra or to help out. They didn't ask me for that, so I don't need to be there early.

Brent: 11:43

Those commercials are shockingly appropriate or accurate. You look at them, you're like, oh, I am that guy standing in line trying to coach the checkout person to go a little faster. Or you got a little too many, too many items here, don't you? Yeah. And then you're kind of complaining about it. Well, that's something we got wrong. So early is on time. Not sure that that's correct these days. All right, next one, number seven.

Brent: 12:12

And this is one that I had a lot of pride in, but I realized that it isn't something that I'm so proud of anymore. Two-star hotels are great. I can sleep anywhere. This is something in my 20s and really teens, 20s, maybe even early 30s. I was super proud of Rob. That I could just, it didn't really matter. I could stay at the cheapest hotel. I just get a good night's sleep, move on. I could sleep in the back of my car if I'm going camping. I could sleep in a tent. And I realized over time that this one I missed the mark. I always thought that I would just stay in motels for the rest of my life. They're cheap, they're convenient. Some of them have a clean pool, some of them don't. Some of them you trust, some of them you don't. But I learned the hard way on this one is about a year after my wife and I got married, so this is over 25 years ago, we decided I was running the San Diego Marathon. And we are traveling from one place to the next. We arrive in San Diego and I got a recommendation from a very close friend of mine. I really hope he's listening to this because it is humorous. And he's like, from San Diego, he's like, Oh, this is the place the little community needs to stay in. Beach town, you guys will love it. Here's a hotel that'll work for you guys. So we I just booked it, didn't think any of it. Well, when we got to the hotel, not a hotel. I don't even know if it's a motel. I think it's an upgraded crack house. It was really bad. Or it was like a combo crackhouse slash motel. Like they need to make a little bit of money. So we go into the room and we're like, oh, this is bad. Like you're looking at the bed, it's kind of caved in, and you're looking at that old quilt, and you're like, I don't think it's been washed for 34 years. And then you're looking at the sheets, you're like, they're stained. You're like, this isn't great. And then you go into the bathroom. The bathroom in the shower didn't even have like a drain stopper, it was just a hole rusted out, and you're looking down, you're like, what's going to crawl out of that? So we just looked at each other, and I'm the first to admit, I was like, I'm out of here. And Carolyn's like, let's get out of here. Thankfully, she had a friend that was living nearby, her and her husband, and they welcomed us into their house for a couple of nights while we did the marathon and had fun in San Diego for a few days. But I got to be better at that one. I mean, that was one that I missed the mark on that I thought those things would always be in my picture, like just cheap hotels, like save a little bit of money here and spend it over here. Uh-uh. That was one that I learned the lesson on. And it was like, there are some places that are just not a standard I'm willing to dip back down to.

Rob: 14:50

It only took a countdown to number seven for Brent to bring up sleeping, by the way. Just got to point that out, Brent.

Brent: 14:57

Yes, it did. Hey, man, I'm telling you, Rob, it wasn't really impacting my sleep. It was the EBGB's that just came with the whole package. And there was just a lot going on at that place, and that was a turning point for me. But yes, nowadays, it's like I got to have the right pillows and the right bed and the right noise and all these things or no noise to get my sleep, get my required sleep. So, yes, it did arrive at number seven.

Rob: 15:25

All right, number six on the list of the 10 things we got completely wrong and still get wrong to this day. I think there's more than one way to load a dishwasher, but there is not. There is the right way and the wrong way. And I'm constantly reminded that my way is wrong, or not quite as good. And in our house, Brent, you know, I do put stuff in the dishwasher, I do know where it's supposed to go in the dishwasher, and I think it's full. And I mentioned out loud, hey, I'll start the dishwasher, and I think I'm being helpful. And my wife will say, Tara will say, no, I think there's plenty of room. And she'll get like two more days' worth of dishes in the dishwasher before we run it. And so there is only one way to load the dishwasher. It's the right way to load the dishwasher. But I do have to share a pretty funny story where even I knew better than somebody else how to load the dishwasher. You came over for dinner, and I think you were by yourself. Carolyn was out of town for the weekend. You came over for dinner, and looking at a dishwasher, and this is totally one of those commercials, Brent, when you pull the rack out and you have plates that are lined up straight and in a row, all one by one, you know, stacked in a certain order, you would think that the next plate you would put in would just go slot right in next to the previous plate. Well, not at Brent's version of loading a dishwasher. He puts the plate at an angle on the opposite side of the dishwasher, just kind of sets in there. It's nice you put it in the dishwasher, but you did it, and it was driving me crazy because I watched you do it, but you quickly shut the drawer, shut the door. And so I didn't want to correct it in front of you. But as soon as you left, even Tara said, Did you see where he put that plate? It's not even close to being in the right spot. It's not even close. Like it's like they're all laid out, ready to go. You just have to add one to the existing rack of plates, but not Brent. He just throws it in somewhere else.

Brent: 17:15

Welcome to your household, Rob. Everything is very, very organized. So I find that story hilarious because I am sure if I got to observe that, it would be can you believe Brent? Like, why did he put his dish here? He could have put it this way. And the funny thing is, the question I have for you is if you would have just turned on the dishwasher, do you think my dish that I put in would have still gotten clean, served its purpose? Or because it was in the wrong place in your mind that it would not have cleaned that one dish and it would have thrown everything off. So, what's your honest answer there? Would it have cleaned it?

Rob: 17:55

It would have gotten clean. Yes, it would have gotten clean. But it was so bad, Brent, that like as soon as you left, I looked at Tara, she looked at me and go, and the comment was, Did you see where he put the plate? I mean, can't you take a clue, Brent? Yes, it would have gotten clean, but it was not right.

Brent: 18:14

So, what you just described is the progressive commercial in your household.

Rob: 18:18

It is.

Brent: 18:18

I don't even know if you turning into your parents on that one. I don't know your parents well enough, but I don't know if they'd be proud of that dishwasher loading practice that you guys have mastered over the years.

Rob: 18:31

I don't have it mastered. I just know where stuff is supposed to go. Yes. You didn't even take a clue.

Rob: 18:37

Yeah.

Brent: 18:38

You know, well, that's something that I will work on next time around. So, you know, that is very there's humor to that one. But it is certain things in life, Rob, that we think we have figured out, which is leading us to number five.

Brent: 18:54

I'd have all the answers my parents seem to have at this point in time. And this is an interesting one for me because as I was reflecting back, when you in your 20s, you're kind of looking ahead and you're starting to question a little bit about your parents, but not a lot. You're just kind of like, yeah, they've got it figured out. They're in their 50s, they're kind of doing their thing, and seems like they're on a good pathway. Now that I'm in my 50s, I look back at my parents and I'm like, I'll bet you they were winging it. Just like you and I are winging it, and just like our friends and our listeners are winging it, just trying to figure things out as it goes. You know, you're navigating all these different life situations in your midlife, and it's not like there's this perfect roadmap for every single person to say, do this, then this, then this. So I give my parents a ton of credit. I bet you they were winging it, but from my perspective, if I look back in time, I never thought they were winging it. I thought they just had all the answers. But why don't I have all the answers now, Rob? I don't get it.

Rob: 19:57

You're spot on with this one. I did think my parents were figuring it out, and it was probably my mid-40s, as I did figure out in my mid-40s that they're winging it and they were winging life. And now it's very obvious that they're winging it. I can tell that today they're still trying to figure everything out. But it's absolutely that transition for me happened when I realized that my parents just made stuff up. They didn't know what they were doing. They were trying to fix stuff as they went along. It was my mid-40s before I figured that one out.

Brent: 20:23

Yeah. Yeah. And more power to your parents. Shout out to mom and dad on that one. That they're just figuring it out and they're still figuring it out, and it seems like they're having a good time figuring it out. So that's maybe very aspirational for all of us.

Rob: 20:36

Always look like you know what you're doing. So learn how to bluff really well, like your mom and dad bluffed.

Brent: 20:41

Absolutely.

Rob: 20:42

All right. So before we get on to number four, if we've missed something on this list, which I'm sure we have, missed a couple of things on this list, please make sure you message the show. You can do that directly through your app. Leave us a message on the things that we missed or some of the things you thought you would have had figured out, or you got completely wrong if you think back to when you were 20s, what you thought 50 was going to be like. All right, number four.

Rob: 21:07

And this is actually kind of a sad one for me, Brent, a little bit here. Number four is all the people that I knew in my 20s would still be the crew that I was growing old with today. And I thought that crew was like, oh my gosh, these are the best people in the world. We're going to keep clubbing into our 50s, we're going to go out dancing into our 50s, we can go through Taco Bell at two o'clock in the morning in our 50s. That's the group I'm going to be hanging out with forever. And my 20s and 30s and even early 40s, people really I figured out just kind of come and go through your lives. And it didn't actually hit me until the last like probably four or five years ago, that I realized that a lot of the relationships that I have kind of ebb and flow. And meeting people and you know, having different people to hang out with, that doesn't ever change. There's always different people to hang out with, but true, really close friends, the people that were the core group. That nucleus group that I had in my 20s and 30s, there's maybe like one or two people I even still talk to. In fact, one of the groomsmen in my wedding, I only talked to one of the people that was in my wedding on a regular basis.

Brent: 22:12

It is the craziest thing. When we were putting this together, we were talking about this one in particular, because there is that moment in time you think the people that are with you in that period of time will be with you forever. But then what you don't factor in is like, okay, people get married, people move, they have kids, they just have different life circumstances. You how many times have you moved, Rob, since college? Eight. Eight times. So then that's hard on friendships, eight times. And they say that, you know, I've heard the stat where it's all about proximity and your proximity of your friends. And so when you move away, it's actually a lot of work. Now, if you are really tight friends with somebody, it may last the you know for life, but sometimes things change. I think when you said groomsmen, I was thinking through that. I had a number of groomsmen in my wedding, so this is over 25 years ago. I stay connected with three of them. One happens to be my brother, and then there's a couple more that I stay connected with, and then there's like a middle tier here, or there might be just like one of them that I kind of in and out, and then a couple of them I haven't talked to in probably 15 years at all. And it was no harm, no foul. Like it wasn't if like this defining event where we blew up and we're like, we're never going to talk again. No, not that at all. Just life carried on. This one's a shocker to me because I thought that this would be figured out for sure. But it's just not our 20s, it's our 30s, it's our 40s, it's our 50s, it'll be our 60s. That it's just a bit of a revolving door, sad as it may seem. But for those that you want to hang out with, just make the choice to hang out, put the time in and it'll last a long time. But sometimes it just doesn't work that way.

Rob: 24:03

Do you have the phone number of those other groomsmen, Brent?

Brent: 24:07

Um wow. Two of them I do not. Like I didn't even know where they are in the world. Like no. And the rest I do for sure. So I could easily just connect with I think I had seven groomsmen total, including my brother. I easily five of them are just reachable and no problem. Like that. And those five I could get, and it would be like time didn't pass. But then two of them, I don't even know where they're at in life. Like I don't know where they live, I don't know what they're up to, I don't know. Did they have kids? Did they not have kids? I don't, I just don't have a clear picture of that one. And that's a bit sad to me, but it is a reality. But it's not a there's not a reason like ah, that person I never want to talk to again, just kind of fell by the wayside.

Rob: 24:59

Just faded away. Yeah, I have one of those that completely I have no idea how to get a hold of him anymore. But my challenge for you, Brent, would be just send a quick text. I mean, you have a really good excuse. You were thinking about him today. Hey man, I was thinking about you today. It's been forever. Hope you're doing well. Just a random text like that could go a long ways in that reconnection.

Brent: 25:20

You know what I've heard to even add to that? One way to communicate really well is to send them a video message. Hey, I'm just thinking of you. And I heard that that actually creates, I heard it on another podcast, podcast junkie over here, saying that's a really cool way to connect with somebody because you create that facial recognition and it's a little bit more of a human connection versus just a quick text. You could do a 15-second video. I did that recently, actually, just two weeks ago, to one of my groomsmen I hadn't talked to in a long time. And he responded, he's like, Oh my gosh, because he and I are going through the exact same thing in life right now. He's an empty nester, I'm an empty nester, his youngest just went off to college, mine just went off to college. We're in the same boat, and we all send texting back and forth, just laughing about, oh boy, what are we up to? You know, so that was, but I did it as a video message to kick off kind of the conversation back and forth. So that is a fun way to communicate. Because I like it when I get a video message from somebody. I think it's kind of cool because I get to see where they're at and what they're up to.

Rob: 26:22

I get very few, so yeah, they are pretty fun. And I'm guessing the person went, oh man, he got old.

Brent: 26:28

Look at old Brent. Exactly. Like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Whoa, what happened there? Brent looks a little bit different. Hey, it goes back to the earlier ones on the list here. It's like the diet and the exercise, like, yeah, we've all evolved. Yes, yes. All right, so let's go on to number three.

Brent: 26:51

Number three has been a challenge for me. And I want to get your perspective on this one too, is leaving work would be easy. Let me set the stage for this. In your 20s, you've got this picture of I'm going to work for a number of years, and you may have a somebody, a role model, or somebody you lean on and saying, wow, they retired at 55. They retired, or they went into like I think what I saw more of when I was younger was people going into semi-retirement. They might have sold a company, they're still active, but they're also traveling more, more adventurous, doing things now that they have a little bit more flexibility in their schedule. So I was always building up to that. So then let's do this drum roll that all of a sudden I get into the stage of life where I'm considering that. I had no idea how hard this transition would be. And I think it now that I've been removed from the scenario of my last company for now three years, Rob, which is crazy, is there's an identity built up into it. I put a lot into my work. I've acknowledged that a million times on this podcast. And I feel like it was a big part of my identity, who I was. I was a worker, I was an entrepreneur, I started companies and all these lofty things that I portrayed in my bio, my business bio. But I didn't know how hard leaving would be. Play back your experience, like because you actually, if I understand correctly, is you and Tara had a roadmap that you were planning to retire by about 50. Is that right?

Rob: 28:29

It is, yeah.

Brent: 28:30

So take us through that experience because you actually had a little bit different than me is I wasn't necessarily planning, but it actually timed, you know, worked out. But for you, you had this plan, but was it easy for you to leave work?

Rob: 28:43

Leaving was easy. Yeah, I will say leaving was easy. It was what happened after that was all the difficult part after I had left is now what am I going to do? So our plan was, you know, we're going to retire in X number of years, you know, we're going to obviously before we're 50, but there were periods of time where it's like, I'm done, I'm burnt out. The job I was in, the work I was doing was incredibly stressful, and I was dealing with that and bringing that home every day, the burnout all the time, and just exhausted. And so leaving was saying I was leaving, that was the hard thing for me to do. And I tried to do it a couple of times, but they kept offering more money to stay. And I know a lot of our listeners have that issue too, is that you know, they're trying, they think they want to retire, but the company just makes it too sweet of an offer for them to actually go. And they stick around just one more year, one more year. And I've talked about this on podcasts. I kept, I fell into that one more year trap, one more year trap. And I would trade the stress for money that I was earning. I, you know, I had that equation that I ran for years is I'll take on a certain level of stress as long as you pay me enough money. And so when I finally pulled the trigger saying that I was going to leave, that was the hard thing. Wanting to leave was not. I was ready to get out. But it was everything after that and trying to figure out what the new norm was. And if you ask in our household, there was a lot of arguing back and forth because I was still trying to figure out my whole role. You know, Tara had me home all the time now. I was not traveling as much as I was before. She was trying to figure out her role. What do we do in this household when I'm not having to work? The limited chores, or the limited things around the house that I was doing. She could hand them off to me, but she wasn't comfortable handing them off, or I didn't do them like loading the dishwasher, didn't load it correctly.

Brent: 30:22

How are you going to load that dishwasher, Rob? Like you can learn how to do it.

Rob: 30:27

But it was right after leaving, it was trying to figure out what would be next and what's going to happen. So mine wasn't leaving, was the difficult part. That was easy. It was the next day and the next week and the next month.

Brent: 30:39

Are you sure that leaving was easy for you? Because that was like a two to three year buildup to leave.

Rob: 30:47

Okay, so if you go back to the first time I threatened to leave, yes, it was like a three-year buildup. But I was leaving three times. I left, I told my company I was going to be stepping away three different times before I actually did. And the last time it was an easy choice to go ahead and leave, even though the carrot was even bigger to stay. I knew I needed to go. And I knew that the cost that I was paying with the level of stress was going to catch up with me at some point, and I wasn't willing to keep paying that price. So by the time I actually did it was fine. But I also had some practice threatening to do it three or four times before I actually did it.

Brent: 31:28

You know, it's interesting about this one, Rob, is we were at dinner just recently and we were talking about this with our spouses, and we are both describing how long it took us to actually make the transition from the day we left our last company to now, how much in that period of time did it take us to make a transition to actually start to feel like we're productive again or we're connected again? And for me, I'll let you answer on your side. It took me almost two years to really, actually a little bit more than two years, to really make a healthy transition to say, wow, like you can go do what you want and you can go experience life the way you want it in many different ways. But I was stuck in the old world. But I also attributed that is when you're so dedicated to your craft for so many years. Mine was like 30 years. It's not a light switch, people. This is a tough one. It was very strange. How about your experience? I know you'd shared your timeline of like what it took you to really navigate to start to feel like this was a good decision and you felt like I'm on the right path.

Rob: 32:36

For me, two years. I think it's at least two years. If you were to ask my spouse, she'd probably say, I'm still trying to figure that out. Yeah, well, that's which means I'm probably I'm still trying, not probably, I'm still trying to figure it out. She knows me better than I do.

Brent: 32:50

Yeah. Well, we may get to that in one of our later items on the list.

Rob: 32:54

All right. Number two on the things we got wrong.

Rob: 32:58

And I get this one wrong all the time. So number two, I'd be good at enjoying the moment. And this served me really well when I was in my working life and in my 20s and 30s, as I was always thinking about the next thing, the growth, I would I could be doing something, but I would also be always looking forward, planning the next thing, working on the next thing, always looking forward. And at the cost of a lot of living in the moment. And that worked really well. It helped me get promoted, helped me earn a really good income, helped me get to a place where I can retire early. And there's only a couple of things right now, even to this day, Brent, that I can do where I can be totally present in the moment. And my monkey mind isn't working through some problem, working through something, trying to process something or trying to forecast something or plan something. And the three things I can do where I can completely be in the moment, one is fly fishing, and that is like meditation for me. I don't meditate well, but fly fishing is something like I can just sit and focus on trying to, you know, trying to lay down a fly exactly where I want it. So fly fishing, riding a motorcycle is number two on the list where I can be totally in the moment of just driving a motorcycle and enjoying that. And for some weird reason, rafting is the third one for me where I can be in the moment, where I just melt away and hours will go by and I won't even know what I was thinking about. Those are the three activities that I can completely turn off and be in the moment. Every other part of my life, I'm rarely in the moment. I'm always thinking forward, like, what's the next thing? What do I have to do this afternoon? Even during this podcast, I have the list that's running in the back of my mind after we record the list of things I have to do before Tara's friend shows up around the house to get ready for a guest that's coming over, right? All of those things. I have trouble living in the moment. And I picture those people that are in retirement and in midlife when I was in my 20s and 30s, like, oh my gosh, they're so present. They're here right now. It's so easy to be in the moment because they don't have the stress of a job, stress of work that's going to be taking them away. I left work and I'm still thinking about other stuff. That's what's weird for me. And I'm hoping I get more and more activities where I could be completely in the moment.

Brent: 35:05

This is a tough one for me too. And when you went down your list, I mean, fly fishing is my absolute number one where I'm in the moment, and it's probably why I enjoy it so much. I find I get the same experience with trail running where I'm just kind of absorbed by just the outside. Because I don't actually, when I run on trails, I don't listen to music or podcasts or anything. I'm just trying to just be present with what the surroundings offer me at that moment in time. But what I find about living in the moment, it's challenging because I found myself, even if recent, I'll be on a cool adventure. Let's say I'm on this amazing trip to someplace, and I'll find myself planning my next trip during the trip that's so amazing. I'm literally drafting out, like, okay, in December, I'm going to go here and I'm going to go do this. And I'm like, wait a minute, why not just enjoy what I have right now? And there's people in our lives that are so good at I would say my wife is so good at being present because she just has this tendency to just pick the moment and just be in that moment. She's not thinking in the past and she's not looking towards the future. She's just staying right here. And you can see it, you know what's fun is like if you go have lunch with a friend and they're very good about being present, how much more enjoyable that conversation is. And I just try to replicate that. The person never brings out their cell phone that just purely like, How are you? and just talks about, and they're not talking about can you believe this? Can you believe that? Like all the things in the past, or gosh, you know, like what are you thinking about doing next? It's like, how are you today? I admire people that are really good about being present in life. This is one, and the reason why it shows up on number two is like it's a great life skill. If you acquire it, it's hard to do. And I'm with you, Rob. Like, weren't we trained for a lot of our careers to always be thinking ahead and always just trying to be three steps ahead? You know, and the more senior you get, you have to be like years ahead of your team and you know, making sure that we're building and growing and evolving. But now in life, in midlife, maybe there's something special about being present with that moment right now. And this is I don't want to call it an aspirational goal, but it's something that I routinely work on because I just enjoy being around people that are super present. And if I can show up the same way, hopefully people will get the same feeling in return. All right, here we are, Rob. We are landing on number one on our list. So, number one

Brent: 37:44

is I actually know what I want to do with my life. I got to pause on this one. Like, this is like one of those pauses where I was like, boy, did I think I thought I'd have this figured out. I really did. I thought that life would just take care of itself and it would always be the next thing, the next thing. And so when you're deep in your career, you're focused on that career. In my case, like when my kids were in the house, you know, you're focused on your kids and their development, their growth. Here we are. My kids are off in college, I'm semi-retired. I'm thinking that I've got this figured out, like I should have this figured out. I don't have this figured out at all. And I let's use this podcast as an example, Rob. So you and I started the podcast like a year and a half ago. And we really sat down and what was that first month like? Just describe to our listeners of what we were planning to do with this podcast.

Rob: 38:50

So we started, when we started building out the podcast, we started with the business mindset that we both left from our careers, right? The business. How do we grow a real business in the podcasting space? And when we think about how big this business could be and how to optimize how all the opportunities of this business, I'll go through the list of things, Brent. And I, as you were talking about this, I went, started thinking about the podcast. I wrote the list of things down. So we actually not just had a podcast, we created a media company because we wanted a platform for other brands and other podcasters or even documentaries to be able to work from a platform that we actually would sponsor and host. We talked about a book and writing a book. We talked about apps and having apps, having an app for the podcast and the app for our media company as well. We actually had workshops, and I have a couple of workshops that I had even built out that I could actually give in different scenarios and different places, speaking events, workshops. And the last one was actually even doing retreats, and we can do this big retreat thing. And we actually started building this thing out. We thought, oh my gosh, this is going to be so cool. We're going to build this really big media platform, this really big company around this podcast midlife circus. And then we realized how much work it's going to be.

Brent: 40:04

It was shocking. And we built out, just for everybody's to give you even a deeper perspective, we built out detailed business plans for each one of the things that Rob listed. We each had a plan, like we're going to bring on two or three more podcasts over the next two to three years. So other people that are interested in being on the Burning Matches media platform that's our production company. And then we set up structure for retreats and actual workshops. Rob built out kind of workshop formats and so forth. And we just were going all in. We started to draft kind of the outlines for some books and where we could go with books. And it was all these things, and it was a transition from our past life. Like we only knew one direction to go, which was go for it. Growth mindset, build it big. If it's not big, it's nothing. Up and to the right, up and to the right, up and to the right.

Rob: 41:00

Up and to the right. That's how every chart needs to look is up and to the right, and the steeper the better.

Brent: 41:04

And I was looking back at the goals that we set. You know, we wanted to have like a bazillion listeners, and we wanted to have all these different events, and we were looking at people that were doing it really well, and then we paused. And we paused just not once, but multiple times, because we said, All right, do we have to do it that way? And is that something that we put value in at this point in time in our lives? Now, Rob, if we were in our 30s and our 40s and this was the only thing that we were doing to support our families, we would have been a hundred percent all in on all of the above. And we probably would have mapped it out a little bit differently, but to say to get more revenue and get more sponsors and all these things. But we were asking ourselves the bigger life questions. It's strange to talk about this on midlife circus because I thought you and I had it all figured out, but we don't. I mean, where maybe you describe our last two strategy sessions, you know, so people understand about the podcast and some of the things that we talk about today versus what we talked about just a year and a half ago.

Rob: 42:12

We got clear on what we want now. And we decided that we don't want to work that hard now. We could if we were in our 20s and 30s and 40s, and maybe we missed the window with the podcast that we didn't do it earlier in life. But what I've come to realize, and it's through our conversations, both on the episodes, but also when we talk about strategy behind the scenes, it's okay to want different things at different points in your life and change direction from what you're doing. I mean, Brent, you had a couple of companies that you've shut down. I've turned away clients because I don't want to do that right now. That's okay to do, and it's okay that it's going to change. Just because we started something doesn't mean it's a failure if we stop doing it. And we're not, I'm not saying we're stopping the podcast at all. We're going to continue to do it, but we're not going to go after all of these things that we had in our original list because that's a lot of work. And I don't want to work that hard right now. I want to have a lot more fun right now. While the podcast is fun, a lot of this other stuff started to feel like work, and I didn't want to do that anymore.

Brent: 43:15

And one of the things that we talk about is that we've got this blessing and a curse, is we're both very confident and we're both very capable. So we're confident that we can go build all these different avenues for the business, and we're also confident and capable that we can go do that. But then we started to balance it or bounce it off the rest of our lives, and we're like, wait a minute, why are we pausing this cool adventure that we're on right now to record an episode about something completely different? So that is completely counter to being present. Like we were at this cool venue, and also we're like, hey, we got to bring our podcast here because we got to get an episode done and we got to get this recording out because we committed to that. So, what's interesting about number one, and why we put this on our list for number one in our top 10 things that we got completely wrong is we thought by this point in life that the roadmap would be established and we would just everything would just be taken care of, and you just keep following through with it. But what we've learned, and one of the coolest things in midlife, is you have the ability to pivot, and you have the ability to pause, you have ability to go all in, partially in. So podcast was just an example where we're just adapting to where we're at in the moment, and that's what's so enjoyable for us is we get to spend time with our listeners, we get to spend time together with Rob and I, but we're also doing it at a pace that makes sense for our lives, but it's helping us understand what are the things that we want to do in our lives. And it's very fascinating that the podcast is almost replicating the stage of life that we're in, that we're making some adjustments just to accommodate the other fun things that we're doing in our lives. So it's been super cool to reflect back on this number one as we are preparing for this episode, because the podcast is a perfect example of many, many pivots all throughout. And I'm sure it'll continuously pivot, Rob.

Rob: 45:14

We don't have to optimize everything anymore, Brent.

Brent: 45:17

We don't.

Rob: 45:18

We don't.

Brent: 45:19

All right.

Brent: 45:19

So this brings us to the end of this episode. So, in a closing question that I have for you, Rob, is we just went through the top 10 things that we completely got wrong. So now is your chance to think about that list. What will you have solved on the list in maybe the next 25 years?

Rob: 45:41

I'm really hopeful that I can figure this one out, Brent. I think with age will come the wisdom to do it. And it's to be able to be in the moment. And I think that's something that age does allow you to do is to be more in the present moment. And you and I have a neighbor, and his name is Steve. And when you meet Steve walking around the trails, he's kind of an inspiration for me because the guy truly lives in the moments. He's an older gentleman. I think he's probably in his late 70s right now. And if you start chatting with him briefly, and if you say, have a great day, he goes, Well, if I don't, it's my own damn fault. That guy lives in the moment and he's present and he knows that if he's not having a good day, it's his own fault. And so I'm hopeful that as I age, and then 20 years from now, when I'm in my 70s, I'll have it figured out like Steve does, and that I get to live in the moment. And if I'm not, it's my own damn fault.

Brent: 46:41

I love that. You know what? I met Steve a couple of years ago on a path, just walking through the neighborhood with my dogs. I said, Hey, how are you? And he said that phrase right back to me. And I didn't know him the way I know him now. And so I just met him as a you know random person on the path, and he said that. So you just prompted me that or brought me back to that place a couple of years ago when he said that. So I'm glad he does say that. And I like how you left that, and that's a good one for all of us is how can we be more present with our life? And how can we make the pivots to places that bring us the most joy and excitement and fun in our lives? So, as we close out the conversation today as a recap, today was meant to be fun. And we're really just talking about, you know, things that we got wrong maybe in our 20s by we're projecting forward about 25 years. And so part of it is humor, but part of it is just realizing where we're at in life and in sharing some of the stories that we've encountered. So if you got value out of this episode, share it with a friend because that's one of the ways that we continuously grow the show. So share this episode. And as Rob mentioned earlier, if we miss something on the list that glaringly we missed, message the show. We'd love to hear from you.

Rob: 47:55

All right, as we wrap up, I want to actually shout out to one of our listeners who sent a message into us. This actually came from one of our friends, Carol. And the message is this Brent, I'm dying. We have you on your two boxes of coaxial cables and old cables. We recently had new carpet installed and we're going through our stuff in storage, and Stuart had five boxes of cables. We are slowly trying to get rid of the stuff we no longer need. So, Carol, you probably can get rid of at least four of those boxes and keep only one box of coaxial cables just in case Stuart needs them in the future for something. Thanks for listening. Until next time.

Lena: 48:39

That's it for this episode of Midlife Circus. Visit midlifecircus.fm. Follow Midlife Circus on Apple Podcasts, YouTube, and wherever you get your podcasts, so you never miss your next great act. Quick reminder the opinions and stories shared here are personal reflections, not professional advice. This show is for entertainment and inspiration only. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you under the Big Top next time. Midlife Circus is a Burning Matches Media production.