Most of us picked where we live because of a job or our kids’ schools, and midlife is usually the first time that choice is really ours. Rob, who has moved eight times, and Brent, who has lived in the same mountain town for 14 years, look at how where you live shapes your daily habits and the people around you, and why so many people stay put long after their original reasons for being there have changed. If you’re weighing a move, you’ll come away with a practical way to think it through, from sorting your must-haves from your nice-to-haves to spending real time in a place before you commit.
Transcript:
Transcript Disclaimer - May contain the occasional confusing, inaccurate, or unintentionally funny transcription moment. It’s all part of the show.
Brent: 00:02
Rob, what is the smell that instantly takes you back to a specific place from your past?
Rob: 00:26
That is the perfect question to start the episode, Brent, because I'm flying there tomorrow, actually. And I would tell you, it's the smell of the New York City subway station. And as I say that, you're nodding your head. I'm guessing you've been inside the New York City subway station. There's definitely a smell to it for anybody that's been there. It uh it takes me back to 12 and 13-year-old Rob living in the city, moving from small town Oregon to Manhattan and living in the city. And I get to go there this week to support a really good friend of ours that's running in the New York City Marathon. So I'm really excited about getting on a plane tomorrow. We'll be in a train station tomorrow night. So I get that smell to kick off the weekend or the week that we're going to be there and uh and bounce around the city.
Brent: 01:11
I thought you were going to give us a smell like getting off the plane when you're in the Hawaiian Islands because that has a distinct smell and feel to it.
Rob: 01:20
The sweetness, yeah.
Brent: 01:21
Yes. But when you take us to a subway, I know that exact smell, and it actually takes you to that place. So I'm not going to knock it because it's a very distinct smell, but it actually triggers a past memory. I have the same thing. I guarantee if I went down to the subway, it would take me to a place, a time, and that takes me back. I lived in New York City for a year uh on and off uh when I was a consultant back in the 90s, uh, ironically. But that smell of the subway takes me back to that moment in time in my life. And you know, like the senses, the reason why we started this episode with the smell is smell is the only sense that is like a direct pathway in your brain for memory and emotion. So a lot of times when somebody smells something, it can take them back to a place because it triggers that emotion, which is strange, but very cool. I actually, the subway, I know it's a very fond part of your life growing up in, you know, up that portion of your time in New York City. So you're going back this weekend to watch our friend run the New York Marathon, which is awesome. And uh, so that's a cool way to kick off today's episode for sure.
Rob: 02:29
Yeah, it's uh it's interesting. You know, you talked about the smell being a direct pathway to memory in the brain. And I bet for you, Brent, our audience, there's food that triggers memory, a family. I think of like apple pie as my grandma, right? New York City is the grime and grunginess of the subway system that it takes me back to 12 and 13 year olds. Yes, I do like the sweet smell of getting off a plane in Hawaii that is fantastic, but not necessarily eliciting that really strong environmental memory of having lived someplace. And
Rob: 03:00
that's what today's episode is really about. It's about where we live. And where we live actually defines a lot of the components of our life that we're typically not paying attention to. The surroundings that you have around you, the people that are around you, the financial impact of where you live, all have a have a dramatic effect on your quality of life. And midlife is a great time to look at where you live. Is it the it's currently it's where you live, obviously, but is it the place you want to live in the future? Is it going to bring out the best version of your future self? And so we're going to talk about living someplace and why where you live is so important as you get into midlife and beyond. So, Brent, as we talk about location, location, location, location, right? I think that's the realtor term. Why is it important for people in midlife to take a step back and evaluate their living situation?
Brent: 03:56
I find because I'm in it myself, just because of my kids have now gone off to college, and a lot of times you make that decision where you live based on your circumstances when you decide to move to that community. And for me, a lot of the circumstances when I moved to this community 14 years ago was raising a family. And we wanted to live in a house that was in close proximity to the elementary school that our kids could ride their bike to school every day to and from. And we wanted to have access to the outdoors, but a lot of it was centered around kids. And now that that has changed, the kids are out of the house, it gives you that moment to reflect back to say, well, where are we headed? It's an opportunity for you to step back and say, hey, the kids are gone. In my case, my career changed, you know, a handful of years ago. So you look at it and say, is this the place that I want to live? Which it is, and we'll get more into that later in the episode, and I'll I can explain why. But it's really that moment in time where you can reflect and start to look back, be like, maybe I moved to this community for different reasons that no longer hold true. And is this the place that I want to hang my hat on? And you know, the pillow that I want to sleep on, is this the location I want to be? Because you use that phrase location, location, location. And that is like the number one thing like what makes you tick. And, you know, we've heard this phrase, Rob, over and over again that you're a product of your environment. How do you think the environment shapes you in midlife? You know, you guys have made some significant changes to be in the community you're in, but maybe take it as at a higher level is why are you a product of your environment?
Rob: 05:48
Brent, you shared a little bit about that, I think, in your previous answer. It's you choose a location for a lot of outside factors: your job, kids, kids' school, proximity to school, other family members being nearby. And it's a lot of outside things that impact that choice. And midlife is that chance for you to personally make that choice. And it's actually your location is one of the easiest things you can actually change. You can really easily change the location in which you live, which then changes a lot of components of the life around you. If you live in a place that has really easy access to really nice restaurants, you're probably more likely to go out to eat more often than you live in a rural location that doesn't have good restaurants. If you live in an area that has lots of outside activities, hiking trails, biking trails, those types of things, you're more apt to go do those things than you are if you have to get in your car and drive someplace. So the environment that's around you really shapes a lot of the lifestyle that you get to have and the decisions that you're making. Just because, and you've used this phrase a lot during our episodes, Brent, the easy button. We're going to all try and take the easy button to do something. If I have to drive someplace to go experience something, I'm likely I'm less likely to actually go and do that because the extra step of having to drive. Now, if I just have to leave my front door and within a couple minutes I'm doing said activity, I'm actually more likely to do it because it's a lot less steps involved. There's a lot less barriers of entry in that location, in that, uh in the sense of getting to that activity or experience.
Brent: 07:22
Well, if you even go back and I really put an emphasis on the kids, but a lot of times our decisions where we live is because of our work.
Rob: 07:31
Yeah.
Brent: 07:31
And your work takes you, and you've moved a few times, and we'll talk about that a little bit later as well. But when you think about your work, you want to be in close proximity to your office unless you're truly remote. And a lot of this has changed in the last five or six years, mostly starting in COVID, where everybody was working remote, but then some organizations stayed the path of kind of this hybrid or they're truly remote, or some are saying, hey, let's bring up people back to the office. There's usually only a couple of drivers to why you live where you live at certain points in your life. And so if you look back and maybe let's say your 20s, 20s is really driven based on your career, you know, and it's like, I'm going to go work here, and you might change your job a few times, you might move your locations. 30s for a lot of people is defining their family and their career. 40s is family and career. And then when you get into your 50s and 60s, it's your career is probably moving in a different place. It's the case you and I, that's a good example in the retirement side of things. But then your kids maybe moving out of the house, going off to college, and now they're starting that same cycle of what are they going to do in their 20s and what are they going to do in their 30s? One of the things that I would love to get your opinion on because you put such a big emphasis on this, is we always talk about our five rings of midlife, and one of them is health. When
Brent: 08:55
you think of health, what does proximity mean to you, to health, and your location where you live to your health?
Rob: 09:04
So the proximity of access, when I think about health, Brent, and I think about proximity of you being able to get out and go on a walking path and get out in nature, which is very healthy for you. The proximity of health care and good quality health care is important as we get into midlife. We've talked about having to go to the doctor more often. There's a lot more things that come up, and having good quality health care nearby is really important. If it's if it's a long distance, you're less likely to get the care that you typically need. I think about the pace of life from a health standpoint and why proximity and your location. We're a product of our environment. You use that phrase, Brent. You're the product. You as an individual, how you act, how you interact, how you behave, how you uh how you explore the world, how you experience the world. That's your environment shapes that. And I made the choice that as I got into midlife, I wanted a much more casual, I wouldn't say slower, but more casual pace of life. Some people want a more fast-paced life if they get into midlife. And living in a city where it's vibrant and exciting, they and they have access to museums and nightlife and shows and things like that. That pace of life is healthy for them. And they want that pace of life to continue having high energy as they get into midlife. I wanted the other end of the spectrum. I'd had a lot of that energy expenditure during my working life. I wanted to actually slow things down a little bit and have a little bit more quiet and peace when I made that decision. So think about health and proximity to health, what that environment around you, when you choose to live, is going to shape a lot of the health points for you.
Brent: 10:38
And then when you think about what you just described, some people move to a rural area because that might be where the schools that they want to be at for their kids, or they've got the larger house and the yard and stuff. And some people they want to go down this downsizing route because that gives them the ability to have less maintenance, a smaller house, maybe live in a city where it's a lock and leave environment where you've got this beautiful condo and you can leave it for months on end if you want to travel and so forth. So every stage of our life brings in these new circumstances or new ideas or new wants, and it's how you adapt to it. But
Brent: 11:20
we spent a lot of time in this podcast also talk about the financial component. And I find with the financial component, it's understanding your cost of living because you may have to make some decisions. You're saying, you know what, I want to go into semi-retirement. I was just talking to a friend last weekend about this, and he was actually considering kind of exploring moving to a new location. And the new location is a third of the cost of his existing location where he lives and the city that he's in now and the cities consider. And he actually is doing it for a number of different reasons, considering it, but going a third of the cost. And I think what that did in his head is like, wow, I think I could retire quicker. Yeah. I could take some money out of my house now, and I could get a smaller place. And so he gets this win-win, but it's that cost of living equation may be the nudge that people want to help get to a different location. Maybe they've got a desire to be in a different location, but then that location also may be less expensive, or it could be less expensive because of you no longer have the big giant house and all the maintenance and all the things that go with it.
Rob: 12:30
Absolutely. You talked about the sell your house and downsize, which I know I've heard a lot of people say they want to do. It's hard for people to actually pull the trigger and actually do that. Selling and downsizing may free up the cash flow that allows you to retire. Going to a place that actually the cost of living is lower could move that retirement date or semi-retirement date up for you and make it actually a little bit sooner. And that's the things that start weighing out. Is it worth moving into a different lifestyle? Because going to a lower cost of living, there's going to be some trade-offs. There are going to be some things that you lose in that environment. The other thing, and this is we talked about the product of your environment. Think about the version of you and the identity you want to cultivate as you're thinking about these locations. We've traveled to the beach. The beach version of Rob is different than the city version of Rob, which is different than the mountain version of Rob. And which version of me makes me the happiest and will actually put me in the best place moving forward in my life. So you're thinking about location, that product of your environment. What's going to actually give you the most joy? Has it done it in the past? Likely, if you've enjoyed a place in the past, you'll enjoy it in the future. Now, I don't know that I love going to the beach, but I don't know I could ever live near the beach. That's not something that brings me long-term joy. So it's not just a you went on vacation someplace, let's move there, which my sister actually did. She went on vacation to the Virgin Islands, they sold everything downsize and moved to the Virgin Islands. Some people can do that. I couldn't. And I actually want to spend more time in the environment to really check everything. Is it going to be a good fit for me long-term or not?
Brent: 14:04
agree with you. I think the identity component, and that's part of the it leads into the people aspect because your community is how do you associate with the people around you? So you and I live in this very active community. And usually the conversations, and I can give you two scenarios here. When I lived just outside of Denver, the conversations, this is several years ago, the conversations were with people in my community. It's like, hey, how is how's work today? Tell me a beginning about your company. Hey, what are you guys doing? Hey, I saw you in the news, whatever it might be, or your company in the news, that's the conversation was around work. That was like the first part, the lead-in conversation. The lead-in conversation with people in our community is like, hey, what trail were you on? You and I started our conversation today. Is here we were in the fall, and it was a really, really crisp morning. And it started out with you describing you going on an eight-mile run, and it was like frozen trail so forth. Me describing walking the dogs, and it was just everything was frost covered. And it that's where our conversations are about activities. So that's like the people that you're now connected with. That's our community is designed that way because we have access to all things outdoors in our backyards. And that's something that was important to me when I made that decision to move here. But that's a big part of the community that you live in. It's the people, and what are the people interested in? That's that proximity, that's that connection.
Rob: 15:38
If the version of yourself wants to be healthy and active, surround yourself with healthy and active people. If the person that you want to be as you move forward is the individual that's going to museums and really nice restaurants, surround your people with that do just that. And Brent, I actually had coffee two days ago with a really good friend that's considering a move. It's funny that we're talking about this today. It's like they almost knew this episode was coming. Your friend started talking to you about relocation. I have a really good friend of ours, you know her as well, that's talking about moving four and a half hours from Denver out to the Western Plains. And the cost of living was going to be lower and it was going to allow a lot more affordability for things. But her biggest concern was community. And I said that has to be well, probably your largest concern is your community. Yes, you're going to build a new community where you go, but you have a really strong network that you're leaving right now. And you can still visit, but you have to be purposeful. It's not going to be as easy to do the things you did before with your old community. And you will fall out of touch with some of those people in your old community. Assume that's going to happen because if you're not living by somebody, you're less likely to randomly get together with them. You have to be more planful. And so the important people you'll be planful around. But some of those acquaintances that you call friends, you're less likely to see them if you are to move away from that environment. People just don't come visit as much as you think they might.
Brent: 16:58
Absolutely. Speaking of friends, if you have a friend that's considering a move, share this episode with them because this hopefully gives them some inspiration and some ideas to think about as they explore their next great act in a maybe a new location.
Rob: 17:12
So, Brent, I've moved a lot and it's been really easy for me to kind of pick up and start over fresh. I have built up a skill set around that. But there's some real tension involved in moving, whether you move or not to move. And one of the things having some kids, and I've heard people say this to me before, is we moved multiple times, and not having kids made it easier for us to move. Usually people with kids and you have schools and you want to help your child get through high school before they make a relocation, things like that. But I've heard people say after their kids are out of the house, they want to stay in their old house as a place for the kids to come back to. And so the tension is there's tension keeping them there from maybe the other version of the self they want to have. So let's talk about the tension on that side of the equation, Brent, the things that keep somebody in a place that may not be the best for who they want to be moving forward.
Brent: 18:01
It is so challenging because you're holding on to these memories of the Christmases at the house and the first day of school and the activities and your kids walking through the door as they're growing up and all these memories, and you feel as if you leave this location, those memories will disappear. And absolutely some of them most likely will kind of disappear outside of that photo, unless you've got this crazy memory. But it's trying to relive that past experience. And one of the biggest challenges is if you start designing your life around a future state that's a bit unknown, it gets really tricky. And I think about it, it's of course I want my kids to come back, but both my kids live in a different state right now. And I don't know if they're going to come back and live at the house. My guess is one may not, one may for a little bit. I don't know the answer to that. If you start designing your life around a potential scenario, it gets really tricky. And then even going further around grandkids, that's even more complex because your kids are going to go through the same cycle that we all went through. Meaning that they're going to start their career, they're going to move for their career, and then they're going to identify a community that is really fitting for their family and their family needs and the schools that they desire. And all of a sudden that starts to evaporate. Then you're like, well, then they'll want a vacation here. Well, if your home is set up for being a vacation home, that's great. But sometimes homes aren't set up for being a vacation. And you think your kid wants to come back and live in this little shoebox of a room with their wife and kids or their spouse or their husband or their partner. I don't know about that. So it's a really but I would say, Rob, it's super emotional. I mean, it's a really, really challenging scenario and it's not easy to do. I mean, are your parents still in the same home? Have they been in the same home for a while?
Rob: 20:02
No, actually, my parents have moved into multiple houses as I've gotten older. So I never I don't have the grade school, high school bedroom that I left. That does not exist anymore. They moved to multiple, multiple homes. And so for me going back to visit them, I have to be very purposeful as to me going to visit them. It's not me going home because the home that I grew up in doesn't exist anymore, at least for us. The house is still there. Just the home isn't for me. And so it's not my home anymore. Doesn't make the visit any less enjoyable for me. It's you know, and if they did have my old bedroom, it'd be kind of freaky to walk into high school version of Rob with posters on the wall and toys or books or you know, sweaty gym socks probably still sitting on the floor. You know, I'd I that wouldn't necessarily bring me joy in coming back to visit. I'd be a little nostalgic right away. But I look back and say, eh, okay, this was a version of me that doesn't exist anymore. It helped shape who I am, but not who I'm going to be. But even Brent, you brought up kids. Your children will likely get married or they'll have kids of their own. They're going to have the same thing we went through as, you know, you start splitting vacations or splitting holidays between spouses families, right? You know, it's Thanksgiving with my parents, you do Christmas with your parents, right? Back and forth with sharing that. And then as they have kids, um, I know my siblings all experience this. You've talked about this, is you want to have Christmas with your family at your home to create those memories in your home. You don't want to have Christmas at grandma and grandpa's home. And so I've heard of people thinking about moving closer to where their kids live just so they can go experience the Christmases and Thanksgivings at their children's house. What do you think about that?
Brent: 21:46
You know, there's a time and a place for it. And I can tell you that I have friends that are navigating that right now, and they have kids, and their kids have kids, and so you know, they're grandparents and they're trying to figure out where they want to live. I think it's a wonderful, wonderful thing for people to be close to family if the time and the place is right for it. And I find that we see people in our community has a lot of that where grandparents have moved into the community because it's a nice community to live, and the grandparents want to be very active. And so they bought a house six blocks away and they're integrated with the family. I think that's amazing. It's not for every family. But I find that it's really interesting when you want to start making those decisions really early on. And I was just talking to this friend that's considering moving, and it's like, are you going to move there because your kid's going to move there? But your kid is like in your their early 20s, they might move six months later for their career. And then now you're are you in that location because you want to be in that location, or are you in that location because of your family that your family now has moved? So it's a really tricky equation, but there is a stage that I see these families do it where they create this beautiful community where there's integration between grandkids, grandparents, parents. And I think that's awesome. And it's amazing when families can figure it out. I hope that a lot of people can experience that way. I don't know what my future has in store of that. We'll see. It'll be a chapter that hasn't been written yet. But I think it's really cool when families do figure that out.
Rob: 23:14
But you're saying, I'm hearing you say wait. Is your recommendation? Your thought would be to wait until you know that the kids are settled. And that that's going to be the community that they're going to be in for an extended period of time rather than on a whim moving pretty quick while your kids are still building and developing them their own personal lives.
Brent: 23:31
I think you can move there, but you have to move there for a couple of reasons. I mean, yes, it's the benefit of your family being there, but your family may not be there. Your kids might move to a different location because of their career or some other desire that they have. So you have to move there saying, I want to live in this community and I also want to be near family, but you might just have to pick up and move again. I don't know if I have a real recommendation there. I'm just saying it's worth taking in consideration because it's it can be really challenging. I've seen families do that, and it's also the grandparents are kind of a little disappointed because they're like, Why did you move? And the kids are like, Because I had to, you know, yeah, you know, for my career. And also this wasn't a permanent thing for us, and it's it can get really tricky that way. But those are just part of conversations and being adaptable in your life and trying to really understand that your kids are more fluid than you are, that's for sure. You know, they're a little bit usually a little bit less kind of like fixed to a location because of they're building their life versus you're trying to settle in.
Rob: 24:33
The other tension I think that exists though, and this comes back to a lot of people thinking and saying, Oh my gosh, I would love to live in Europe. I would love to live on near the beach or near in the mountains. It's the place they went to on vacation. And the fantasy versus the reality. What is the fantasy of a location? I mentioned this earlier. There's the beach version of Rob and the mountain version of Rob. The beach version of Rob, there's a fantasy involved in that beach version of Rob. It's who I act when I'm at the beach for a very brief window of time, but it's not the long-term reality of who I am. And so I think about the tension that exists there. You can't just make the leap without doing a little bit of work in advance on yourself. And what is it that's truly going to be a joy for you for an extended period of time? You mentioned somebody that maybe downsizes and has a lockoff opportunity. I have some friends that have actually done that. They've downsized very significantly into a lockoff opportunity. Pretty quickly they realize they don't like being in that lockoff opportunity. It's in Florida. They don't like being there in the summer, Brent. Go figure. They move from Colorado to Florida. They don't like being in Florida in June, July, and August. And so the reality is they like Florida. They like living near the beach, they like all of that. But there's a handful of months when that reality is miserable for them. And so because they have that lockoff, they lock it up and they go somewhere else and live somewhere else for three months. And they have lived in Italy for three months, they lived in Nova Scotia for three months, and they've gone experienced different cultures. But the reality is that move into a location they thought was going to be the best of everything didn't fit all the pieces, didn't fit for the summer months that they were there. Luckily, they had the flexibility to go and travel someplace else. And because they downsized significantly, they had the means to actually do that type of travel and that type of living in a new location as well.
Brent: 26:26
It's a tricky one because we all have these fantasies of these places that we've maybe visited, we've read about, we've watched it on TV. You see all these great TV shows that are built around the old Western kind of lifestyle in Montana or Wyoming. You and I were talking about that earlier. And people, have you been there in the winter in some of those places? There's certain aspects that are a bit challenging. Or where you and I live in Colorado, have you ever woken up and said, I want to go for a walk today, and it's negative 18 out? Now that doesn't happen a lot, but it's usually happens a couple days per year. So it's this fantasy that you have. You got to be prepared to kind of think through the whole thing. But I love it when people like your sister made that decision to say, we're going to do this. And how long have they lived down there? Eight years, I believe. There you go.
Rob: 27:16
Eight years now, and they live on the Virgin Islands, so they sold everything. And I really admire my sister for doing this. They sold everything, their house, big house in Denver, sold almost all of their furniture. They moved to the Virgin Islands without jobs as they were in midlife. They realized that this was not the lifestyle that they wanted to have long-term living in Denver and the stress that they both had from their jobs. So they sold everything, packed up, and moved to the Virgin Islands. And they found jobs down there. They actually found things that cover the bills and pay for things. They have a great duplex that they live in, and they have a place for people to come visit. Now, my sister would probably also say they don't have visitors as much as they thought they would. You know, everybody says, oh my gosh, you live in the Virgin Islands, you must have visitors all the time. People want to come down there. Everybody has the best intentions of making a trip like that, but people don't jump and make those trips as often. The other tension I think that my sister's experienced by making that change that she maybe wasn't aware of was the proximity of healthcare. So she lives in a very beautiful location, but to get real specialized health care, she has to take a boat to St. Thomas and then she has to fly to Miami to actually get really good health care. And so there's a couple extra steps involved that she has to go through for good medical assistance. There's a lot of tension that exists in making the change. The last one I would say, Brent, is the cost of staying. We're going to stay with what's comfortable, what's what we know. There's a cost of staying in the emotional turmoil of if I would move, my life would be better. And that's weighing in the back of your mind. Financially, there's a cost of staying versus downsizing and moving someplace else. And so as you start thinking about cost and what you might lose if you move to a new location, also think about what you lose if you stay. That'd be the last piece of tension that I would say that people have to be aware of is what do you lose and what do you get by staying? And understand the downside of doing that as well.
Brent: 29:08
Yeah, if you if you're dreading it, right? If you're sitting there like, gosh, I just, I really can't stand the winters in this location. It's just too cold. There's too much snow, but I'm just, I don't want to move. Okay, you've got this tension that you've created and you're not addressing it. And so it might be taking a physical and psychological toll on you because you're not taking those things into consideration. And that's something I'm glad you bring that up because I think it's always the cost of truly what is the cost to relocate versus what is the cost to stay. I think it's a really important kind of part of this equation that most people need to look at because it's easy to put it out to where we headed versus where are we at.
Rob: 29:53
Absolutely. So if we miss some of the tensions that are involved in making a change. So if you're you've been thinking about making a change but haven't done it yet because you're afraid of something or something's holding you back, please message the show if we missed a couple. We like to hear from you as an audience. We missed a couple of things that's preventing people from making that big leap.
Brent: 30:12
Okay, Rob, I have a really big question for you. Is you've moved eight times, which is a lot more than most people do. So what advice do you have for somebody that's considering a new location?
Rob: 30:26
The first thing is take your time. You don't want to get someplace after having made the change and have significant regrets. So we talked about the tension and the things you give up. Take your time in making that change. Put dates down in the calendar so you have some anchors around it, right? So if you've thought about doing something, hey, you know what? By June of 2027, we'll decide whether or not we're going to move or not. So put some anchor dates down there. You may not move on the June date of 2027, but you have an anchor date to make the decision. Are we going to do this or not? So take your time and put some dates down that'll help hold you accountable to making a decision. Not making a decision is a decision in itself, but it's an unconscious decision. So just make a decision. Then you can actually have the joy of having made the decision and living the lifestyle you want to have. That takes me to the second thing is what's the version of you that you really want to cultivate and you really want to have grow? Who do you want to be when you grow up, right? We get to answer that question now that we're in midlife. I think we're almost kind of grown-ups now. So who do I want to be today? What is that version of myself that I want to invest in and spend time in to actually transition as I go into my more senior years of life? Those would be the first and the big two. The third one I would say, Brent, is just truly understanding what are the non-negotiables. If you're going to make a change, what are the things that you're not willing to give up? Are you not willing to give up healthcare? Are you not willing to give up restaurants because you want to go out to eat on a regular basis? That's a really important part of your life. Museums, lifestyle, pace of life. What are truly the non-negotiables in making that change that you actually will maybe hold you back to where you're staying currently or drive you in a different direction of where you end up living?
Brent: 32:16
On that one, Rob, I think an easy way to tackle that because it gets very challenging for people when you're thinking of all the things like to I have to be near restaurants, and you're like, no, I don't have to be. And so you kind of play this game of back and forth. I like to put things in three buckets when it comes to this non-negotiables. The first bucket is what I call the must-bees. These are the things that we absolutely have to have. And then the next bucket is I call the nice to haves. They're the ones that would be, yeah, it'd be pretty cool if we were within 30 minutes of an airport. An hour, whatever. The must-be is an hour to an airport. The nice is cut it in half. And then the third bucket is what I call delighters. It's those things that it'd be really cool. But if you don't get it, so be it. It'd be really cool if we had four or five restaurants and walking distance. But if we don't have that, that's cool. It'd be really cool if we had access to a bunch of trails. It's like those things that are just awesome. They would be totally delightful. But if you don't get them, no skin off your back. You're not really sweating it. But it starts with those must-bees. Like these are the things we absolutely have to have. And you've talked about this a few times. And I find that people get caught up on this one because they start to bleed them all over the place, meaning I have to have this. Do you really have to have that? So those three buckets might help people through it.
Rob: 33:43
I really like how you shared that, Brent, because that's a lot of what went into how we decided to move where we did. And it was the what is what's the must-haves, what is the nice to haves. And then I didn't even get to the place of what are the delighters, what are the things that you know kind of put icing on the cake. But the next suggestion I would have is spend time in the place before you make the change. Spend time there. And it's so easy to do with Airbnb’s and VRBOs. You could spend a month or three months in a location before you pull the trigger to buy a house. And so one of the things that we did in our last move, one of the must-haves for us was a community. Number one, it was the community for us. Yes, we wanted to have access to hiking trails and biking trails and things like that, but the community was key. And so we spent time at the local coffee shop, hours and hours and hours at the local coffee shop. And way more coffee than I probably should have had at that time in my life. But we'd sit there and we watched how people interacted at the coffee shop. Because the community and how the community got along was really important. We walked around the grocery store. How does this community interact at a grocery store? We paid attention in parking lots. How do people talk? And how do people are they rushed? Are they frantic? Are they honking their horn? Are they impatient? Or are they actually kind and generous and friendly to everybody? It's amazing what you can find when you sit in an environment for a long period of time and you just observe what's happening. You'll start to see trends that really define that. So the number one for us was community, and we had to spend time in the environment to understand what that community was going to feel like for us. Now, we only knew two people in the community. It was you and Carolyn. We're the only two people we actually knew here, but we knew that we couldn't be at your house every night hanging out. We had to make other friends, which we have subsequently made a lot of other friends in the street. Just two or three more. Just a couple. Well, Tara's made a lot more friends. I have friends of Tara's that I've been. Yeah.
Brent: 35:42
It is so funny because Tara's always out and about and she's chatting with people. You guys are both really good. You've met so many people in this community, certainly a lot more than I have, because I, you know, I relied on all the community, the friends through my kids, you know, when they were younger, and that's a great way to meet people. But you guys just took it like to this nth degree of coffee shops and meetups and things like that. So it's a cool way. But I like how you put that. It's like spending time in the community is so important. And it's actually an easy step to do. You can rent a house, you can do a hotel, you can stay with friends, whatever it is, because if you don't give yourself a chance, everything is through just purely what you read about or what you hear about, things like that. And I also want to ask you a question as it goes to that, because you guys went through this, because I'm quantitative, very numbers-based, is I have a tendency to put things on paper to say, here's the cost of living. This is the cost of this house. And so this quantitative approach, but there's also a qualitative approach. And how did you guys address that when you were moving to this community of the numbers versus the feeling?
Rob: 36:50
We did both, Brent. We did both the feeling and what are the financial. So, what would the cost of living be in this community? And it actually, from where we came from, it was actually at the time pretty similar to what we had come from. So we figured out the cost of living was going to be a neutral change. The cost of housing was a little bit more expensive, but we also didn't plan on leaving for a long period of time. So the cost of housing, we recoup over years in the future. So we did do the quantitative, the number crunching for this area. You talked about proximity to an airport. I was working at the time that we moved here. I needed to have an airport that could get me places. Yes, it's a regional airport, and we typically have to fly through Denver or Dallas to get anywhere, but it's an airport that's within 20 minutes of my house. I would have been okay if it was an hour away, but I didn't, I knew I didn't want to be in a major city with an international airport. We knew that about it. There was within an hour. That was part of the quantitative approach to it. The quality piece was just being present. You know, would we actually use the things in the environment that are here? So if walking trails is one of your must-haves and you stayed in a location for a month, how many times did you actually use the walking trails in that month? Because that's really going to tell you, are you going to use it if you move there in the future? So, what's the number of times you actually used it? Did you go for a walk every day because the trails in the past were close by? Then you're probably going to go for a walk every day after you leave. So I there is a balance between qualitative and quantitative.
Brent: 38:14
I remember the sales pitch that Carolyn and I used to do to you and Tara when you guys were considering moving to this community. And it was like, hey, look at this new trail that they put in. Hey, look at this new restaurant. And it was just funny to be like, really? Like, yeah, this is amazing. And so we just kept on throwing these qualitative things at you to kind of get you guys more excited about this community.
Rob: 38:35
You did it for years, four or five years before we actually moved here. You were planting seeds, but because I was still working at the time, I needed proximity to an airport. We knew we wanted to live in the mountains. We knew that from a lifestyle standpoint. And where that came from, the mountain lifestyle we wanted to have, we did a seasonal rental in the mountains for years, different locations within the mountains. We did seasonal rentals for ski season. And we drive from Denver into the mountains, and that took me through the Eisenhower tunnel. And every time I hit the tunnel, my heart rate dropped. I relaxed. I knew that was the version of myself I wanted to cultivate. And so we knew we wanted to live in the mountains, but we had five mountain towns we were checking out at the time. We loved all of them. They were all, if I named them, you'd be like, oh my gosh, any one of these would have been great. There were some that economically we would have loved to live in, but we couldn't afford to live there from a housing standpoint and a cost of living standpoint. The restaurants were amazing there, but the housing and the other financials were not. It's the quantitative, qualitative back and forth analysis to do and take some time doing it. Last thing I would say is none of these choices are permanent. If you want to dip your toe in an area and you sell your house, rent a place for a period of time. Everybody talks about the American dream is owning a house. I don't think that's the case anymore. If you actually do the finances between what house upkeep is, not just the equity you're building in a house, but the upkeep of the cost of living in a house, you might be way better off renting in an area to experience that community for a period of time and see if it works temporarily for you before you make that permanent decision. So you can always change this in the future. And again, it's always looking forward of what am I going to get by making the change, trying not to look at what am I losing by not making a change.
Brent: 40:25
Totally agree. It's funny when you say about the qualitative and the quantitative, and then we've just moved into this, you can always make a change. And it's really challenging. It feels like we're doing some because it feels like it has to be permanent. But that's one of the beauties, it doesn't have to be. And like you said, if you choose not to purchase your house, well, that gives you a little bit more flexibility to try a different location. So I just encourage people to think about it a little bit broadly versus maybe the decisions you were making several years ago. And you know, there's just a lot of options today to move to a lot of neat locations.
Rob: 41:06
And owning a house doesn't have to be the version of you going forward. And you might want to cultivate a lifestyle that is significantly more flexible, whether a rent will allow you to do that. Totally agree. Brent,
Rob: 41:18
you've lived in this community for 14 years. As we go to wrap up, what would be the number one priority if you were going to be forced to move someplace else?
Brent: 41:30
Well, we opened up this conversation today is location, location, location. I want to close the conversation with people, people, people. That to me is the number one priority. Are you surrounding yourself with people that you want to hang out with, be around? Is it your family? Is it your kids, the location that your kids are at, if that's the right stage of life that you want to be near them and they wanted you to be near them, you know? And it's one of those things where we read about a lot in longevity studies, and you can go down the list to say, well, you've got to eat well, you got to exercise, Rob, you got to sleep. I couldn't have to sneak that in. I'll make it in almost every episode. But one thing that is coming up more and more is community. It's people. Are you spending time with people? So as you explore places to live, are you exploring places where the people there are people you want to spend time with? That to me would be the number one priority that I've learned. And that was one of the reasons why we moved to this community is because it's an outdoor-oriented community, and the people love the outdoors. And so that is something that I also love the outdoors. You love the outdoors, all our friends love the outdoors that live in this community, and so that's easy for us, but that's an important piece for me. Not all communities are that way, and that's why I probably don't live in a different community. That to me would be the number one priority as I go through this. You think about this episode, Rob, why are we talking about this? And I'm going to ask you to chime in on this one as well. Is you have this moment in time where things have changed most likely for you. And if you've raised kids and they're now moved out of the house, that's a significant change. I can raise my hand to that one. That's recently happened for me. The next thing is maybe you have a change in career, you've decided to retire, you've decided to make a career pivot, maybe you're working more with nonprofits, whatever it may be. Now you've got that change going on. But one thing that a lot of people may avoid and we're encouraged you to take into consideration, because it might be a part of your happiness factor, is are you living where you want to live? If not, ask yourself the question, why am I not living where I want to live? How do you think about that one, Rob, as we close out the conversation today?
Rob: 44:05
We made it as a very conscious choice as we were going into midlife to build our forever home. And so we built the house in the mountains. We helped design it. It's one story with no steps, so I can get a wheelchair through here when my knees are no longer functioning, Brent. We built that lifestyle that very purposefully of where we want to be and where we're going to be the best versions of ourselves with a community of people that are outdoors on a very regular basis. Rain, snow, hail, sunshine, people are out doing stuff in our community. And so we've cultivated a life that makes it easy for us to go and be that version of ourselves. Awesome. Brent, as we wrap up, we always like to finish with either some gratitude or a message from one of our listeners. We've received a message recently from Greg and Lisa in Michigan. Hi, Rob and Brent. We really miss your podcast and hope everything is okay. Your loyal Michigan followers. Uh Greg and Lisa, thank you for listening to us. As you may have noticed, our cadence of distribution has changed a little bit over the last number of months. And really, that has to do with Brent and I trying to get out and enjoy the fall, which is the best time of year in Colorado, late summer and fall, to really enjoy the lifestyle that we talk about on these episodes. We're out trying to do a little bit more of that on our own. And we found that Brent and I were talking to each other doing the podcast, but we weren't out on hikes. We weren't going mountain biking. We weren't going fly fishing, all those things we typically like to do. And so we decided very consciously to make a change in our distribution of episodes to allow us more time to do just those things a little more often together, but also with some other friends. So make sure you're following our podcast so you get up-to-date episodes as they come out. Uh, thank you, Greg and Lisa, for your concern. Yes, we're okay. Yes, we're still alive. We're just trying to have that life that we talk to you all about having as uh as we go into midlife.
Lena: 46:01
That's it for this episode of Midlife Circus. Visit midlifecircus.fm for show notes, transcripts, and all the latest happenings. And be sure to join us in the Midlife Circus community on Substack. Follow Midlife Circus on Apple Podcasts, YouTube, and wherever you get your podcasts so you never miss your next great act. Quick reminder the opinions and stories shared here are personal reflections, not professional advice. This show is for entertainment and inspiration only. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you under the Big Top next time. Midlife Circus is a Burning Matches Media production.